Hehe... I have an ongoing challenge for years now...$100 bucks says you can't prove that the past and future exist as anything more than thought manifestations in this moment lol.
I agree it might be difficult to prove that. Most things are, I find. According to Goedel no proofs are possible, even in mathematics.
It was believed for 11 years by mathematicians that the famous 4-colour theorem had been proved. Then someone discovered a flaw in the argument.
It seems we can never be sure of anything. If we can convince one person of something, then we agree we have proved it. If we can convince everybody in the world, then we believe we have proved it in spades.
It was Pirsig who said (in Leila): "If you can convince even one person of the truth of your delusion, then you have a religion", or words to that effect.
I may not be able to prove it, but I still have my money on the existence of time. Maybe it depends on what you mean by exist.
This is a great question, and one of my favorite 'spiritual' inquires.
Clocks and calenders seem to establish time as being real, but when examined closely, it is not quite so certain. There are three phases of time; past present and future. The future can almost immediately be discarded as false ... because it never ever gets here. It can be presumed, and things often happen as you expected they might, but the future itself is just dreams, expectations, thoughts.
The "present" is strange too, I'm not even sure there is one. The future seamlessly becomes the past, with nary a nanosecond between. Anything you ever do is immediately swallowed up into the past.
So all experiences, all history, is relegated to the past category. But what is it? Remembrances, thoughts. What in the past can you point to as being real?
Eckhart Tolle does a good job when speaking about the Now. But his talks don't seem to be about: the past, present, future, clocks or calenders. A spacious timelessness that can be felt when the mind is still.
Timelessness, like several other big words, has no definition. Words are very small, they barely scratch the surface, but Man, in all his grandeur, believes himself capable of understanding. After letting go from the binds of autonomy, all that remains is a timeless spacious emptiness.
This can not be learned, but surrendered into.
I make no claims of accuracy. Any sentence I will ever write should begin with in my humble opinion, or it seems, but for the sake of brevity, those are omitted. Should always be assumed though.
Certainly time exists. without it Einstein's General Theory of Relativity would be complete nonsense. The way we humans sense time may (probably is) severely flawed in the Universal case, but it works pretty well within the limits of our perceptions.
Post by withinsilence on Nov 18, 2011 18:41:08 GMT
I agree with tat, there is no past or future but only within thought. Man created time as far as the clock/seconds/minutes are concerned but what is a cycle of life? When does eternity start and when does it stop? Thus all there is is one continuous present moment or NNNOOOOOWWW add infinity. Its like death,show me death under a microscope, things ive, die and then become food for something else to live then they die and feed another and so on add infinity to this process. Energy never dies it just changes form and we are energy vibrating at varying frequencies. At least this is my opinion and it is jubject to change without notice. hehe
"Warrior am I and from the battle I emerge Triumphant"
There are a lot of people in spiritual circles that argue the nothing exists, there is no self , etc...
In some ways it's only a slightly more juvenile view than the idea of an existing self that is separate from everything else...
The mind likes to move and the easiest way to keep moving is to go from one extreme to the other lol
It's too much for some people to except that they are a continuous whole of life and death, being and non-being, and that they are all of it. It's easier to accept that they thought they were some thing but they now "realize" they are nothing...and there is no middle ground of acceptance that they are no-thing lol
They move from an intense belief of single separate being to the other end of that belief, which tells them there is nothing.
You often can't even talk to them about something in the middle lol... Something like the idea that there might be a limitless and interconnected wholeness with no separate thingness lol...a continuum of no-thingness is much harder to accept than Either nothingness or Seperate-thingness....
The reality is that there is existence with no separateness, and that separateness only seems true because we are focusing habitualy on parts to the exclusion of the whole...but it's not that simple either...because there is also the other half of the equation..death, or nonbeing, the void.
In every moment. In everything...there is both being and nonbeing and they are not separate...
It's neither being or nonbeing, nor is it not being or not nonbeing lol.
Just because everything is an observation moving into thought moving into manifestions of falsely perceived independent reality does not mean it doesn't exist hehehe
It's difficult to maintain the depth currently seen here - so I'll have to descend a bit, or rather rise to a more shallow level.
At any rate, I did consider it worthwhile to note some ideas in my diary:
"What is infinitely small can't really be said to exist, I think. The present moment does not exist, because it has no size at all, and even if it did, we'd know nothing about it until it was already in the past. And the future does not yet exist. And the past is already dead and gone. So there remains nothing at all, except our fleeting memories of the past and of our past hopes for the future. (What I am saying is that what you regard as your present hopes for the future are in fact already in the past, not in the present at all.)"
Do animals, bugs, fish, trees, plants, etc. have a concept of time?
Do they think its time to eat, time to sleep, in fact do trees sleep or bugs or fish?
If there were no words, then what would time be seen as, how would it be perceived?
Time is measurement, but of what exactly? Existence? Movement?
Is time anything more than a concept of mind?
Is there not just isness always? Then, mind can remember experiences of previous isness, yet it may only do so during continual isness as that is all there ever is is isness. hehe
Lastly, mind may project isness experiences that have yet to happen, yet how can it project something that supposedly has not happened (notice the word "has" denote "past") as this would come from mind or from some "thing" that had to have experienced it before as is there anything ever new? And again, mind projects this supposedly yet to happen isness experience only in isness, no future no past no present only continuum.
Thus concluding, there is isness or eternityness, alwaysness, everness, nowness, drop mind and just witness isness as every thing is eternal awareness?
Its like, the observer observes itself in the act of observation, yet there is only one or "not two" and the observation happens eternally all by itself. Observation may imply seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling yet all experience is knowing, it all takes place within the mind yet mind may not be aware that it knows as it may be lost in thoughts or beliefs, or past isness experiences so as to limit its immediate isness experiences which means its attention is applied elsewhere within the realms of the mind or on different levels of consciousness. Yet who is applying the attention, who is lost in its thoughts, mind or you, or are you mind, or will, or energy behind it all, who is this you?
Sorry about the length of this last "idea" or "concept", but I have to get it out while its fresh, I will clean it up if I awaken in the morrow, yet who is sleeping or do we just go somewhere else, but where is "there" to go to? Now I go rest in eternity. hehe