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Post by popee on Jan 9, 2013 18:08:39 GMT
see with clarity the foolishness of fears and desires and your job is done
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Post by gurthbruins on Jan 9, 2013 18:46:45 GMT
I myself have no desire to improve the future of the human race, nor do I fear anything that might happen to it, however terrible. If such happens, that is absolutely fine with me.
I think this is quite impeccable, but then it is easy for me to think so, because I have lived long years already and have no investment in the future, no people that I am closely attached to.
So my job is done to a T. But if anyone wants to put his shoulder to the wheel and try to achieve the heroic feat of "saving" this world, then I don't see his fears and desires, if he has any, as foolish but rather as God's will, and beyond reproach. Good luck to him, and to everybody else! Also to those who wish to destroy the world. It's all God's will, there is no conqueror but God!
All conflict is the will of God in action.
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Post by gurthbruins on Jan 9, 2013 18:53:04 GMT
We see it is the fate of many people to "multiply their sorrows", using the phrase of Psalm 16 v 4. So be it.
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Post by popee on Jan 9, 2013 19:04:42 GMT
I suppose I am in the minority when I say "everything is perfect exactly as it is" ... which would include Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea and the good ol USA
do you fear ... murder, starvation, the body getting old and breaking down ... etc do you desire ... peace, harmony, love, clarity in others .... etc
why?
[thoughts] would be my guess
(which I'm still afflicted with more often than not, as my writing often reflects)
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Post by popee on Jan 10, 2013 1:16:32 GMT
what is suffering? what is the cure?
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 10, 2013 2:02:09 GMT
when its time for those to know the Way they will seek it for themselves, its the only way one can know it anyway-this is the perennial philosophy.
the same means and methods of returning to ones true nature have been around for thousands of years and are available today, those who want to know will, those who search for nothing, find exactly what they've searched for. there is enough wisdom on this site to put wind in the sails of a true seeker.
If someone asks, they shall receive, yet ask not receive not hence you reap what you sow and also you don't receive what you don't sow, which is the same thing but maybe easier understood explaining it this way.
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 10, 2013 13:14:18 GMT
what is suffering? what is the cure? suffering is the result of nonacceptance or the desire to control which arises from the conceptual identity of "I", "Me" and "My" simply, it is ignore-ance or to continually ignore knowledge/gnosis which guides one back to truth. the cure is to accept one is sick, then come to know the cause of the sickness and to practice the opposite of it. To fulfill the prescription of sitting still in silence will reveal both the cause and the cure if one allows it too. sorry I cannot be for the negativity yesterday as that would be nonacceptance, yet if I could undo it I would, yin and yang were imbalanced due to desire to control (thinking life should be the way I want it to be) and a violent tornado erupted for a time, but thank God no storm lasts forever, the balanced and calm winds have returned. grumpy is a good description of how I acted, thank you for pointing that out popee.
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Post by popee on Jan 10, 2013 15:15:35 GMT
what is suffering? what is the cure? suffering is the result of nonacceptance or the desire to control which arises from the conceptual identity of "I", "Me" and "My" simply, it is ignore-ance or to continually ignore knowledge/gnosis which guides one back to truth. the cure is to accept one is sick, then come to know the cause of the sickness and to practice the opposite of it. To fulfill the prescription of sitting still in silence will reveal both the cause and the cure if one allows it too. sorry I cannot be for the negativity yesterday as that would be nonacceptance, yet if I could undo it I would, yin and yang were imbalanced due to desire to control (thinking life should be the way I want it to be) and a violent tornado erupted for a time, but thank God no storm lasts forever, the balanced and calm winds have returned. grumpy is a good description of how I acted, thank you for pointing that out popee. not accept "that one is sick" just accept .. "what Is" I sense your passion/compassion ws good on ya brother ..
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 10, 2013 15:39:13 GMT
first one must accept it is sick, to come to know there is no one who is sick, without acceptance the addict will not seek the cause of its addiction, it will continue to believe it is caused by something outside of itself, once it looks within itself and the "dawning of truth happens" which is to come to know it was addicted to something which never existed, then the sage is not sick because she is sick of sickness, only when "you" are sick of sickness can "you" cease to be sick.
this is self awareness, self realization, the closing of what has always been a circle, the end of division/duality/separation and a return to wholeness.
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Post by popee on Jan 12, 2013 16:11:17 GMT
what is your opinion about .... preferences?
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Post by gurthbruins on Jan 12, 2013 17:29:21 GMT
opinion... opinion... opinions... ...
Anent that, all preferences are valid, all preferences are invalid.
Isn't it time someone Tried to be as Unspiritual as possible? It might be interesting to discover just how impossible it is... to succeed.
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 12, 2013 17:53:35 GMT
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Post by popee on Jan 13, 2013 1:01:15 GMT
I don't know gurth ... best I can tell .. 99% of the people on this planet are living in varying degrees of an unhealthy unnatural state
ws and I are attempting to understand and describe that dysfunction, and are discussing the advice and clues left by past sages on how to possibly break free ...
what is your objection with that?
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 13, 2013 13:01:21 GMT
opinion... opinion... opinions... ... Anent that, all preferences are valid, all preferences are invalid. Isn't it time someone Tried to be as Unspiritual as possible? It might be interesting to discover just how impossible it is... to succeed. another way of saying ALL IS...spirit, & there is no volition "outside" of the divine will. all preferences are valid because it is divine will, all preferences are invalid because it is divine will, cause is all divine will, cause ALL IS Divine WILL it is cause and effect, yet neither because it is not separate from itself hence, what is doing to who or who is doing to what as these imply "two" and IT IS..........not two! The above is how I interpret Gurth's post #10, yet I know not that it is true or not true as I was not the originator of it. Thus I assume, and it is this (ass-u-me) that makes an ASS out of U and ME=ASS-U-ME this is the major condition of the United States today, it lives in assumptions and believes them to be true and inquires not into them to see that truth is known from knowing not knowing and revealed within silence. when the ancient master said: "in order to have everything give everything up" they were not speaking idle words nor were they talking about material possessions but the possession of ones identity as a this or that, a separate self. yet some believe that they are possessed by material "possession" but fail to ask "who" it is that "needs" and is "attached" to them. this is the I, me, my, mine identity which happens due to ones belief that "they" are only the body with a brain and that these thoughts of want/desire/need happen to it or come from the brain and thus they think they have no control over them and hence accept this "identity" as themselves (notice the word "themselves" is "plural" hence the body and the thoughts when in truth all is one) this perception is based on an illusion as described in Plato's "allegory of the cave." see popee's "seekers" post 31 for Plato's Allegory. Thus it sees not itself as the thinker of these thoughts but as the physical body who needs things to "satisfy" this "seemingly" outside craving, yet upon investigation/inquiry it will come to know that it is the thinker AND the thought, hence it is the mind living through the body, not a body with a mind as formless comes before form, mind before matter. this is how everything is the result of divine will and there is no right or wrong, it literally is the mind doing exactly as it wills, whether or not it "realizes" itself or not is what gives it the appearance of being awake or asleep/ in darkness or light, conscious or unconscious, knowing or ignorant yet these are all pointing to the same "thing" in varying degrees of understanding/misunderstanding, awakeness/slumber etc. I ask, what is the foundation of the word spiritual, is there separation between "spiritual" and "psyche?" what is YOUR meaning of the word spiritual based upon and why is your or any ones definition of this the truth anymore than anyone else? if one would simply listen to the words it speaks, the tense it speaks from and whether it uses the singular all inclusive form of words, or you use words for you and me and them and your thoughts and this and that........it would be aware and awaken itself in short order. In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was GOD!
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Post by gurthbruins on Jan 14, 2013 5:54:40 GMT
from ws: 'everything is the result of divine will and there is no right or wrong, it literally is the mind doing exactly as it wills, whether or not it "realizes" itself or not' Yes, that is what I mean.
popee, I have no objection at all to anything that happens! If I feel impatient sometimes, I accept that too.
My idea of the meaning of the word spiritual is that it means nothing at all, since everything is equally spiritual or unspiritual.
But we remain Totally free to attach all sorts of meanings to the word, Ad Lib. Let it happen!
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