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Post by tathagata on Nov 30, 2011 7:40:21 GMT
Popee.... Just sit, quietly, and do nothing, observe or don't observe.... Just sit, look out the window, there is nothing else you have to do, there is nothing else you should be doing, just sit and look out the window when you can, live life normally and simply when when you are not.... That's all it will take...
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Post by tathagata on Nov 30, 2011 7:41:16 GMT
When your ready it will happen... There is no rush, nothing to get right or get wrong.
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 13:43:15 GMT
thanks tathagata, it's always nice to hear from you
something has changed. that "longing" has pretty much ceased. not out of frustration, or a sense of failure, or quitting, it's just I'm mostly at peace, content with things being as they are. I can't improve upon anything, so why bother.
I don't know what the exact definition of Awake is, but I don't care. I'm not "there" yet, but I'm not worrying about it. Life is good, and I'm tired of being selfish, of wanting more.
like mamza and zen talked about, I "stare at trees" a lot (or whatever is in front of me). I've been doing that for a while anyway, but now I'm not expecting anything to "click into place" because of it.
It's easy to look at a hummingbird, and see the beauty in that. I like to look at an old rusty can, and look for its hidden beauty.
But, not all is well. I see Question picking on Andrew, and my first instinct is not forgiveness, it is something else. Or I'll tune out my wife, instead of giving her the attention she craves.
So selfishness persists. Judging persists.
I bet you've told me a hundred times to forgive myself, and its fairly obvious that that is the lesson in front of me, but "thinking" it is almost useless. This is a job for the heart.
I don't know the first thing about chakras, but if I were to guess, I suspect there is some baggage clogging up my pipes. lol
Be well my friend
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 30, 2011 14:25:51 GMT
www.tamduyen.com/2010/02/27/the-tao-of-forgiveness/popee, here is a story of forgiveness. As you read it forget not to include yourself and also inscribe your name on the potato. There is nothing I have found so freeing as forgiving which is simply a combination of all those things we talk about..allowing, acceptance, letting go, surrender, simply looking at life through the eyes and the ears not through the mind, not through thoughts and simply smiling at it all as if your in a dream you have no control over...live the mystery don't try to solve it and you and I and all of life is a mystery, there is nothing to figure out just live it. One last thing, I personally during meditation would literally visualize the persons who I was holding non-forgiveness towards and forgive them and myself for not forgiving them and let it go completely, accept what ever happened as a lesson and dropped it totally. I am not saying this is the only way but after-wards I felt so much more free, liberated from the thoughts of these people and never looked back. Hope this helps. Try and understand this as its extremely simple but almost impossible to see: people don't do what they do or say TOO other people out of knowing or intention, they do and say what they do and say FOR (because of or as a reaction to) their thoughts, what their thoughts are saying inside them and they are "thinking" at the time. If they don't know that their thoughts are controlling them they are doing and saying things out of ignorance or simply not knowing. You (conscious energy) are before the thoughts with the volition (power-will) to act or not act on them by simply letting them come and go. Most people in the world simply are reactionaries to their thoughts, thus the thoughts control them because they don't see that they are caught up in them or before them. An example would be a criminal who goes and kills somebody, he is not doing this in essence TOO the other person because he (conscious energy) wants to do this but because he knows not that he IS the energy behind his thoughts but sees himself AS his thoughts (identity=attachment), thus when his thoughts say that this person is bad and they need to die or whatever his thoughts tell him, he goes and does it...without inquiring into the truth of it, of his thoughts. This is an extreme example but is true for everything you do in life. Simply watch yourself do things as thoughts pop into your head. Simply watch, observe and see that you are before them. Simply listen to people speak, stay silent, just listen to the folly most people talk about. They're simply parrots repeating the thoughts of the mind. "Forgive them father for they know NOT what they do!" I take it farther and say most know not why they do and say what they do and say as they're all ACTING out what their thoughts are telling them to do and say. Inquire into the truth of everything you think, hear, read and believe no one, not even me until you've taken it inside and it resonates (feels) right with you. Simply if it doesn't benefit all of life in a positive way then what is its benefit?
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 15:20:52 GMT
That was a nice reading WS, thank you. When I say, I have trouble forgiving, I mean instaneously. I don't hold on to "not-forgiving" longer than seconds, or minutes. I hold no grudges against anyone. For example, yesterday Question took Andrew to task for "teaching". My intial response was to feel empathy for Andrew, and to chastise Question. I even took the time to write a remark about it. It wasn't long after that I felt bad about it. I had no more business judging Question, than he did judging Andrew. Forgiveness should have been my first, and only response. But it wasn't. Not immediately anyway. A short while later I felt silly about the whole thing, and laughed about it. So I don't really have trouble "forgiving", I just wish it would happen sooner. ==== and on second thought and this is hard to explain/understand the bit about "the heart" seems a little tootie fruity for my tastes "detached" being a good word for me and not feleings-less by any means, but "ambivalent" which seems like a problem somehow
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 30, 2011 15:54:15 GMT
I added a little more just now on how thoughts control us, let me know if it makes sense to you.
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Post by tathagata on Nov 30, 2011 15:58:36 GMT
Habits will likely always persist to some greater or lesser degree...I still have a habit of eating, and going out and making some money to pay my bills every once in a while hehehe... So habits aren't intrinsically bad unless they are self destructive habits
Point being, forgiveness is a habit you are Developing... The more you do it the closer to intitaneous it will become...
It's good to here from you my friend.
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 30, 2011 16:01:44 GMT
No prob popee, I struggle at times with acceptance and try to teach or change people. I always try to go back to how "God or life or reality or truth" teaches and that is by not teaching. In other words, life simply says and forces nothing but allows everything to unfold as it will knowing that eventually everything will revert back to its original state of total acceptance of everything. Think about that, if everyone in the world just simply accepted everyone in the world as they are, how long would it be till it was just a completely understanding and an unconditionally forgiving world which is really just unconditional love. This is what everybody in the world is lacking......unconditional love or simply just being accepted. IMVHO
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 16:06:29 GMT
I hear what your saying
the obsessive thoughts syndrome was one of my earliest inquires I "beat" it, so to say, I can go for long periods of time not thinking anything in fact, I'm not thinking more than I am thinking and that "blankness" or "quietness" is good, but its not the final answer although I don't yet quite understand how or why
but yeah, its easy to see how all "problems" are merely thought into esistence they don't exist otherwise
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 30, 2011 16:13:19 GMT
Awesome, awesome awesome, someone who understands this. This is what those principles I wrote about are describing and how we eliminate our suffering as we are the only one creating the problems by "thinking" life should be different than it IS. cool thats it popee, there is nothing else it is the end, when in no thought you just are, you is, I AM, just be, enjoy it, just be, just be, just be. It is the final answer because not thinking is total acceptance, or surrender. You will not stay in no thought for everysecond of you entire life but you are able to recognize when your in it...this sets you free from it and you go through life slowly operating with less and less thoughts. its what its all about...nothing-ness
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 16:15:55 GMT
WS - it seems as if you would "like to change the world" I can see how that could be thought
but I don't think its necessary, or even advisable to consider the world is fine, even with all the apparent madness
change yourself I guess and lead without leading
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 17:21:17 GMT
Yeah, habits. They don't fall away by snapping your fingers. Not sure they "fall away" anyway, they just get replaced with new ones. Part of being a human I suppose.
I suppose a lot of those considerations are irrelevant anyway. Except for making life on Earth a little more pleasant.
Probably better just to do the observe->observe->observe thingymujig. lol Then "answered or moot" as was said once before.
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Post by tathagata on Nov 30, 2011 18:21:19 GMT
;-)
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 30, 2011 20:02:03 GMT
WS - it seems as if you would "like to change the world" I can see how that could be thought but I don't think its necessary, or even advisable to consider the world is fine, even with all the apparent madness change yourself I guess and lead without leading Yes I would if I could but I can't so I won't. If I could sprinkle magic awakening or awareness dust, or a magic anti-slumber or non-identity dust yes I would do it but life don't work that way. On one hand I wish someone would have tried to help me see what kinda blind, egotistical ass I was a awhile back, the only problem was all those who I now realize were telling me, I wasn't hearing because I wasn't listening because I wasn't ready too because I hadn't hit bottom yet and its not until the drug addict hits bottom that he even wakes up to the fact that he's an addict. Why I still think I can help change people is me just being human and selfishly desiring humanity to not destroy its self and help people end their suffering. I know I can't do it for them but all I can do is point the finger at the moon and I enjoy pointing. hehe
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Post by popee on Nov 30, 2011 20:42:59 GMT
nice answer
I know this dilemma well. My entire family is utterly insane. lol But you can't say that without sitting in judgement, which I'm loathe to do, yet I still find myself doing just that.
(where's that forgive-myself magic dust again) lol
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