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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 4, 2011 14:10:48 GMT
Posted in another forum:
Re: Sharia law vs. Christian law by gurthbruins Today at 10:03 am (28-11-2011)
Religions are mostly bad, a collection of nonsense on the one hand, and a whole lot of "laws" that have nothing to do with God. The result is that many people of intelligence naturally discard religion as a lot of trash. The religions in fact are the most responsible for promoting atheism.
Most atheists are much more moral than most "believers". Of the "believers", the minority are real believers, and the rest are simply hypocrites.
But Islam and Christianity differ vastly in this respect: in Islam the proportion of those who believe is much higher, and they take religion much more seriously than most Christians.
In their important essence, if they have any, all the religions are identical. Yoga: union with God is the aim. Islam: submission to God. Christianity: "thy will be done". Judaism: the psalms speak of the close obedience to God, to his laws, and the adoration of same. There is a single, identical thread that runs through all religions.
This identical thread is what Aldous Huxley calls the Perennial Philosophy. The true essence of all religions is Mysticism. The only rational basis for belief is personal experience. Debate and logic are pointless in the absence of direct personal experience of God. God is for mystics, the elite minority who have been given this gift.
Once having experienced God, love of and obedience to God come naturally to the subject.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 4, 2011 14:38:50 GMT
Couldn't agree with you more Gurth. All belief based religions are based in fear, repressed doubt, they are the denial of truth and the very ignorant vehicle that keeps one locked in its beliefs because it is afraid to step outside of them to experience their own truth due to fear of punishment. Mysticism is the answer. Of everything I have studied, it was the mystics that pointed me to the truth. What's ironic is that Jesus' one and only teaching was forgiveness (Acceptance) and its that very thing that most supposed "Christians" cannot do. Why? When you organize truth the organization takes precedence over the truth. Can anyone organize truth? The prodigal son story defines the whole essence of his teachings and the truth of the nature of God. This is my personal experience as I was that lost son. When the experience happens you nolonger "believe" as experience replaces your "belief" with "knowing" and then "trust" replaces the "faith" that was need to support "belief"
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 4, 2011 15:03:52 GMT
J. Krishnamurti joke on organized religion:
You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."
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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 4, 2011 15:55:40 GMT
I love Krishnamurti, one of my all-time favourites. I'll have something to say about his Mayan astrology one of these days.
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Post by freethinker on Dec 4, 2011 17:50:09 GMT
Couldn't agree with you more Gurth. All belief based religions are based in fear, repressed doubt, they are the denial of truth and the very ignorant vehicle that keeps one locked in its beliefs because it is afraid to step outside of them to experience their own truth due to fear of punishment. Mysticism is the answer. Of everything I have studied, it was the mystics that pointed me to the truth. What's ironic is that Jesus' one and only teaching was forgiveness (Acceptance) and its that very thing that most supposed "Christians" cannot do. Why? When you organize truth the organization takes precedence over the truth. Can anyone organize truth? The prodigal son story defines the whole essence of his teachings and the truth of the nature of God. This is my personal experience as I was that lost son. When the experience happens you nolonger "believe" as experience replaces your "belief" with "knowing" and then "trust" replaces the "faith" that was need to support "belief" If I could find Gurth's 'like' button, I'd give your post one of 'em.
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Post by freethinker on Dec 4, 2011 18:05:46 GMT
[...] Once having experienced God, love of and obedience to God come naturally to the subject. Well, hmm. I was with you until you got to 'mystics the elite'. I don't see how I can be 'obedient' to God, since He hasn't given me any orders. He may have imparted the knowledge that it's OK to be a humanist, because He is one too - but given the nature of the communication, I don't know how much of the 'message' came from me. Some things I am confident of, for no good reason, are that God requires of us neither love nor obedience. and that my soul will go to Him even if I am a 'rat bastard'. I know that you, Gurth, are confident that none of us have souls. If I am right, you have a surprise coming; if you are right, I won't know about it.
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Post by popee on Dec 5, 2011 13:48:04 GMT
Religions are mostly bad
What is the definition of "bad"? Should all things bad be done away with? Are you willing to sacrifice good, to be rid of bad.
Christ said, "judge not lest ye be judged". Why is that so hard to do?
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 5, 2011 15:13:17 GMT
popee, to understand the depth (esoteric, mystical or hidden meaning) of that statement you quoted one would have to "know thyself" as the teacher you qoute tells you to do in the Gospel of Thomas. Have you read it? Do you "Know" thyself?
Jesus spoke in parables for a reason, why? Hint: The essence of all his teachings had to do with the following words; Epinoia, Gnosis, Sophia, Prognosis, Ignorance, Enthymesis, Aponoia, if you study these words it will help you understand how Gurth can say that the past & present "organized" religions are judged as bad=ignorant, but the question is why; why are they bad; due to the ignorance of what? Not judging others is the result of what knowledge, of knowing what?
This is what his (Jesus) teaching is pointing to;
Knowing ignorance is strength. Ignoring knowledge is sickness.
Only when we are sick of our sickness shall we cease to be sick. The sage is not sick but is sick of sickness; that is the secret of health. 71st Verse Tao Te Ching
Try to find the truth popee; what is the sickness within man? If the "believing" church going "Christians" would start reading the gnostic Nag Hammadi codices, they would soon see the folly they've been "caught up" in and set themself free from the ignorance of those who know not they don't know! Listen, those with ears to hear! Krishnamurti didn't say that; "inquiry is the flame of attention" for no reason...why did he say it?
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Post by popee on Dec 5, 2011 15:16:13 GMT
the pervasive feeling of separateness would be my first guess
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 5, 2011 15:49:00 GMT
Also FYI, the 17 years of Jesus' life that is intentionally left out of the Bible, he was being taught the ancient esoteric teachings of antiquity in the same Mystery Schools as Pythagoras, and so many others "Philo-Sophia-ers." Don't "believe" everything you "aren't allowed" to read! hehe As oral translation and esotericism was used to keep the truth from those who were persecuting all those who were "living it" for you don't give to dogs what belongs to angels! And what exactly is a fisher of men? What does a fisherman cast out to catch his fish and how does he "know" what kind to cast, when to cast it, where to cast it and when the fish are biting? Does a fisherman waste his time and his bait if there is no possibility to catch any fish?
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Post by popee on Dec 5, 2011 15:50:13 GMT
On a personal note, quite a few of my family members are batshit crazy evangelical Christians I never talk religion with them, so its not an issue
In fact I almost never talk religion with anyone (outside of the internet) I don't even have a clue what "my side of the story is" I'm not even sure I have one
So I'm ignorant, and that's cool, but I don't feel ill, so I'm not actively seeking any cure I've "given up" (in a way).
"Everything is perfect exactly as it is" - that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. lol
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 5, 2011 16:01:24 GMT
no prob, I find it interesting and have spent many countless hours in its study, for "my own truth" if you will. hehe "The hypocrite is the most zealous in the persecution of evil"...."forgive them father for they know not what they do!" The ignorant are ignorant of their ignorance for they don't know, that they don't know, what they don't know! hehe Thus, knowing ignorance is to not be lost in ignorance. Darkness=ignorance, light=knowing ignorance
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Post by freethinker on Dec 5, 2011 16:09:27 GMT
The opposite of ignorance must be omniscience. None of us are the latter, so all of us must be the former.
[Here I invoke the Law of the Excluded Middle]
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 5, 2011 17:57:42 GMT
The opposite of ignorance must be omniscience. None of us are the latter, so all of us must be the former. [Here I invoke the Law of the Excluded Middle] Nice way to put it freethinker. It's when you KNOW you're ignorant that you're no longer ignorant of not KNOWING you're ignorant. hehe
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Post by popee on Dec 5, 2011 18:19:21 GMT
I also liked this Muslim quote.
"If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."
And to think: to write everything I know, maybe one thimble's worth of ink would be enough. lol
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