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Post by tathagata on Nov 16, 2011 10:00:17 GMT
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask....
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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 16, 2011 11:39:00 GMT
Krishnamurti said, "Why believe?".
What do you think of that statement, do you believe anything, what does it mean to say you believe something, and if you say you believe something, what is it that you believe? - Plenty of questions, I'm afraid.
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Post by popee on Nov 16, 2011 16:22:57 GMT
I have a meager understanding of Buddhism: They seem to imply reincarnation. Why?
(unskillful means discarded)
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Post by tathagata on Nov 16, 2011 23:02:08 GMT
I have a meager understanding of Buddhism: They seem to imply reincarnation. Why? ... Welcome to the board, btw, brother tathagata lol sorry, tight budget, no doughnuts or long winded powers of belief quite yet lol (my first edit!!!) hehehe Skillful Means....there is a sutra by Buddha talking about Skillful Means of getting people liberated....in the Sutra Buddha talks about telling children that are in a burning house absorbed in play and oblivious to the fire that their favorite toy is outside in order to lure them out. So with that in mind look at the Christian idea of heaven and and the Buddhist idea of reincarnation in light of the socio economics of the populations abraham Jesus Moses and Buddha were talking to... The Jews were a very poor culture living a hard life of struggle in a harsh environment during biblical times.... So the favorite toy proposed was a kind of heaven where you had wealth and endless banquets of food and drink. In Indian culture in the time of Buddha and before it was a culture of great wealth and great abundance.. It was the wealthiest culture in the world at that time... Life was easy for hundreds of generations... An easy life of wealth with little spirituality drawn out over generations becomes a boring life... Not just boring, very boring and drawn out, it's been said that at the root of depression is boredom or lack of development and progress forward... The boringness becomes depression... So a bored stagnant culture becomes a depress morose culture.... So what would be a good toy to offer to those kind of children to lure them out of the burning house? You tell them that there boredom and depression will continue forever lifetime after lifetime after lifetime until you realize your true nature and liberate yourself. Skillful Means of getting people out of self induced suffering hehehe.
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Post by tathagata on Nov 16, 2011 23:25:39 GMT
Krishnamurti said, "Why believe?". What do you think of that statement, do you believe anything, what does it mean to say you believe something, and if you say you believe something, what is it that you believe? - Plenty of questions, I'm afraid. Belief is the vehicle of creation... Without belief the ground would not meet your foot and support you when it hits the ground, with belief the water will support your foot when they tread upon the waves hehehe Reality as we know it is created via observation by the essential "I amness" at the root of you...your I amness observes and the act of observing creates....but there are preset patterns of observation set into the system of life as we know it...those patterns of beliefs are the foundations of our individual beliefs that we get assimilated into by the culture we grow up in... Those beliefs are the engine that keeps things running... But you have a choice, you can break free of the patterns of beliefs that keep you creating in a kind of auto pilot, or you can choose to not create at all... So in some ways you can say we have three choices... We can be a part of the creation process unconsciously and move creation forward (and backward and sideways) on a kind of autopilot... Or you can become conscious of the nature of your mind, I amness, thoughts, and beliefs, and become a conscious creator ala Some of the highly skilled manifestors like Carnegie and Gates....or move back and forth regularly in and out of all three... As for me... I don't intrinsically have beliefs, beliefs are thoughts...thoughts are mind...and mind is a movement not a thing...I don't have a mind/movement... But then again I also have billions of minds moving in an unbroken tapestry of interwoven thoughts that is all of creation lol
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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 17, 2011 7:39:48 GMT
Thanks for the full reply, tathagata, quite thought provoking/stimulating. I'll consider my next question for a while, but it's on the way I think.
Your asking for questions does seem a good way of choosing a subject to talk about. I think it shows the value of a passive approach at times.
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Post by tathagata on Nov 17, 2011 15:34:18 GMT
;-)
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Post by popee on Nov 17, 2011 20:15:19 GMT
Is "inside" flawed?
A glitch in the matrix? Not likely. An error with perfection? [snort]
.... but something else then which is beyond my capacity to understand
and I do not stand in defense of us insiders I would burn this mutha down if I could
but it is familiar, and seemingly safe in here even if you occasionally stub your toe
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Post by tathagata on Nov 18, 2011 1:55:28 GMT
Haha...your house is not burning popee...or at least you know where the fire is, and are managing it lol
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 18, 2011 17:49:34 GMT
I agree on the beliefs, that I don't believe in them...hehe seriously belief is what stifles a seeker and its not untill they drop all they "think/believe they know that they can enter into the unknown. Krishnamurti also sated that; "inquiry is the flame of attention" and its by (questioning/looking within/inner inquiry) at why you believe what you believe that helps set one free from its beliefs (represeed doubt) as you either know or you "know" you don't know which is knowing.
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Post by popee on Nov 18, 2011 21:41:57 GMT
Agree about beliefs. They are like anchors which keep the vessel moored. Untether and let the current take you where it will.
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Post by popee on Nov 19, 2011 1:32:58 GMT
Its funny .. how the universe .. puts in front of you, exactly what you need at the time but it can be easy to miss how subtle that is .. unless you are paying close attention
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 19, 2011 13:47:58 GMT
Acceptance Awareness Attention Allowing Agree Alive Is it not ironic that all these words, that we use to describe the path to "Awakening" start with the letter "A" which is the first ("A"lpha) letter? If during silent meditation one focuses on its outward breath and lets it flow naturaly, it will notice that the "ahhhh" sound (vibration) is produced. It is the same sound that all these words "Originate" in. I find that when I "Actively" practice my "Ability" of living the essence of these words i.e. Acceptance, Awareness, Allowing and focus my Attention (energy) on simply Agreeing with whatever life brings, I am "Actually" very "Alert" and "Alive" or in "Actuality" or the "Actual." Now, what is the etymology of the word Actually? The word Actually is from the word Actual+ly and means "in Fact" or "at THIS time" or simply "at Present=Actively." Now lets take the word Actuality. This word is the combination of Actual+ity which the suffix "ity" means "quality of BEing" and the etymology of the word Actual means "Now existing" it is the broader sense of the word "real" or "real+ity" how you may ask, because within the Actual there is the Fact+u+al. The suffix "al" means "to" or "in" so the word factual means "In Fact" without doubt or "IN Truth." The reason for this post is to show how the mind is decieved simply by not "knowing" (=ignorance or lack of knowledge) the truth or the essence of the words one speaks. In other words, if one would simply "LISTEN" or become "ATTENTIVE" or "AWARE" of what flowed from its mouth and began to "INQUIRE" into the "ACTUALITY" or "FACTUALITY" of what "IT" spoke out into existence, "IT" would "HEAR" (let those with ears hear) that "IT" has been speaking "FALS+ity" and would "BE-GIN" to "SEE" (let those with eyes see) that "IT-HAS-BEEN" DE-ceive+ing its "self" instead of "RE-ceive=ing" truth from the "Factual" "Actual" "All-Knowing" "RE+AL+ITY" or "PRE+SENT MOMENT" which means an "Instant" period of time or simply....NOW! So what I am saying and I am speaking from of experience is that one is set free with "GNOSIS" and held captive with "IGNOR+ance" because it "IGNOR+ES" the TRUTH or simply doesn't LISTEN, why; because it "Believes" it knows and thus is closed off from listening which=hearing =contemplation =apply reason=logic=understanding=knowing! Once its known then one need not "think" about it because it knows the truth simply by remaining in a state of awareness or listening or attention. The mind (thought system) is a self validating system, that is why its so hard to break the system and the only way to do it is to let go...and see the world without it...like a child....no identity.....as no-thing! One would be wise to study word etymology, here is the site I use. www.etymonline.com/tat, sorry I posted this on yours, I didn't intend to go off on a teaching tangent but one thing led to another and I simply flowed with it.
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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 19, 2011 14:18:23 GMT
I think I see a bit of that importance of "A" in the classical languages Greek and Latin:
Latin: per ardua ad astra (through arduous things to the stars) Greek: aristos means best, so we get aristocracy; in Homer we get this line:
Atreides te anax andron kai Dios Achilleus
(son-of-Atreides....King(anax)...of-men and son-of-Jove Achilles) and that king's name was Agamemnon...
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 19, 2011 14:46:32 GMT
So (through arduous things to the stars) would be similar to Jesus saying (Gospel of Thomas) "congratulation to those who suffer greatly, for they will find the kingdom of heaven" hence it is through suffering that one seeks a way out of it and then starts the "arduous" task of inner transformation bringing about its true natural state of being by removing the veil of forgetfulness it is cast into life with thus it remembers from "whence it came." Achieving the original "state of grace"
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