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Post by popee on Mar 12, 2012 13:53:34 GMT
What do you want?
To be happier or To find Truth
The former is easy enough ... just change your thoughts to happier ones ... (seriously).
Finding truth is a bit more involved .. more commitment is required. And there is a hefty price ... if you are truly serious. It will cost you everything, really.
Personally, I don't care one bit about ... increasing happy-ness. Doing so, imo, only reinforces the "I me mine" complex, and the false sense of separate self.
I see the latter as essentially walking up the stairs of the gallows, placing the rope around your neck, and pulling the lever.
Melodramatic? maybe .. but I think such a mind set is necessary before going off in search of truth.
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Post by popee on Mar 12, 2012 14:45:38 GMT
Thinking is the only trouble maker.
Everything is perfect exactly as it is ... until thoughts falsely say otherwise.
Remain a slave to your thoughts ... and stay in the insane asylum or ... recognize the true nature of thoughts ... and free yourself
For the typical person ... thinking is all they know ... and they will defend their thinking prowess to the bitter end
hear this ... you may be spiritual till the cows come home ... but so long as you are a slave to thought ... you're not going any further. period.
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Post by popee on Mar 12, 2012 15:22:07 GMT
Truth is always directly in front of you. Truth is everywhere, all of the time. And its not even hidden, or obscured.
Bu .. bu .. but ....
Do that thinking thang ... fears, desires, attractions, aversions, labels, definitions, etc
and you will miss it
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Post by gurthbruins on Mar 12, 2012 16:22:23 GMT
Thinking can be dangerous, but I like thinking: I think it's my forte, and it has its uses. It needs to be along the right lines, though.
What do I want? NOTHING."I shall not want," says the Psalmist.
I agree with your suggestion (I hope I'm reading you right) that the conscious pursuit of happiness is futile, a waste.
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Post by popee on Mar 12, 2012 16:42:11 GMT
Thinking can be useful .. no doubt. But it can be a double edged sword ... become trapped in its processes .. and it will cut you deeply. The trick is to observe their comings and goings without attachments or aversions.
Do you think ... all of the time? Can you just observe thought ... without becoming absorbed by it? Even a short time is beneficial. 'Thinking about' thought is pointless ... one needs to 'step back' ... and observe it from a vantage point of silent alertness.
The pursuit of happy-ness ... as is commonly imagined ... is a waste of time and effort. Selfishness, really. I prefer eternal blissful contentment over momentary happiness ... and the only obstacle seems to be the addiction to selfish thought habits.
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Post by popee on Mar 12, 2012 19:37:29 GMT
It may very well be true ... that I am mistaken. I don't know ... or even care, for that matter. I am not clinging to these ideas as if they are true.
They are merely possibilities ... considerations they pop into existence ... dangle for a second .. then retreat like many other things
life is a most beautiful gift enjoy and appreciate it ... immensely
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Post by withinsilence on Mar 12, 2012 19:55:54 GMT
"Perfect happiness is being free from the need to be happy." Chunag Tzu
One must think to get through life, but one does not have to be a victim of the endless stream of unconscious thoughts that try to and do run most lives. Simply stop giving attention to them and they will die as attention is energy, if you give negativity energy it lives, stop feeding the beast (negativity-useless thoughts- or unconsciousness=ego=illusion) and it cannot survive. Don't worry about "you" disappearing when your thoughts do as you are not your thoughts but only the thinker of them. You hold all the power for the life you want to live...change your thoughts change your life.
Want truth? It cannot be given, but you may be it. It cannot be grasped, but you may know it. Simply know you don't know, then, how can truth not be known?
When you shine the light of truth on that which is false, you will see that it isn't even there "you" only "thought" it was. Can one sit there 24/7 and not think? Did you not think to sit to not think; so the answer is no!Trying not to think is to think not to, any time you're trying anything "you" are thinking. This is called repression and when something is repressed it becomes your master. Does this mean to submit to it...no, but to understand it. To know it, to face it is to overcome it. Face fear and one is not so afraid, as, did it not take courage to face it? Courage is the first step up on the ladder of higher consciousness.
Ones identity is its master, are you identifying "you" as the body-material? Or do you identify with conscious potentiality-the energy within the body that is also the physical body- spirit? Are we all not vibrational energy? What is found under the microscope?
"Man looks in the microscope and sees how big he is, then he looks in the telescope and sees how small he is." Manly P. Hall
If the body dies, then how can it sustain living things that eat it? Does not death bring life? So then, is there death? Of what?
From formlessness comes form and form changes back (returns) to formlessness to be formed into form. The circle of life! Every ending is a beginning, every beginning an ending, hence a circle.
Meditation calms the mind from its wandering around like a lost puppy dog. The more you become the observer of your thoughts and not a re-actor to them, the more you become aware of their illusory nature.
Once "you" are aware of what you are, thoughts no longer are the master of your life but rather "consciousness-mind" becomes "its" only master. Thoughts are a false master, the deceiver, simply stop believing them to be true.
If stress is real, then put in a jar and sell it! If fear is real, put it in a jar and sell it! If depression is real put it in a jar and sell it. How you feel is only the result of your thoughts that you are choosing to think about or give attention(energy) too. Don't want to be depressed, then see that its you choosing to think or give attention to depressing thoughts that is the cause of it. You are the cause of it thus, you are the cure! Don't believe me, sit in silent meditation, let the thoughts cease or stop grabbing on to them and become aware of how you feel. Or, do the opposite, go get completely involved in something you enjoy and become aware that you are no longer depressed when doing it. Its only when you stop and start "thinking" negative thoughts that you start to feel bad again. Yes you can feel like this whenever you want, why can't you? Who is controlling your life you or the thoughts?
Everything I wrote here are only words formed together to make a statement called a sentence, which are all abstractions of reality. One can never know if what I have written here is true without experiencing it for thyself. Believe nothing I write anywhere on this site, but don't disbelieve it either as disbelief is the same as belief-neither one knows. Thus, without beliefs one is open to find truth!
An atheist believes not in a God but yet knows not. A believer believes in a God but yet knows not. Those who know do not speak, Those who speak do not know.
With experience there is no need to believe. Experience is your only truth. Do you believe your breathing or know it? Can your experience be my truth? Why substitute ones experience AS your own? Why believe your thoughts are true when you've never even questioned them?
"The fact that a great many people believe something is no guarantee of its truth!"-I forgot who said that but was not I.
The truth is always right in front of you as, that is all there truly is. hahahaha
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Post by gurthbruins on Mar 12, 2012 22:45:08 GMT
re The truth is always right in front of you
A frequent "thought" with me these days is: Everything exists. Truth is everywhere, in front of you, and behind.
Can anything be not true? I doubt it. Could every lie be true? Could there be nothing false at all?
Is not true and false an illusion like good and evil?
Unfortunately words are our medium here, and that could explain a lot. What is a word but a thought? Can our words create a presence or a music?
Words behind words.
We need nothing, as we are always immersed in the divine. Nothing can our peace destroy.
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Post by withinsilence on Mar 13, 2012 0:08:40 GMT
Ahh yes, good old duality...true, false, positive, negative, right, wrong, God, Devil,, good, evil, all "thoughts" have their opposites in this world as all thought is judgment, comparison, an idea, an opinion, an assumption, but in truth can a "thing" be any other thing than what it is?
In other words, is there beauty and ugly or are these judgments based on a preconceived idea or conditioned way of perceiving things in the external world? One man's trash is another man's treasure, so who can say what exactly beauty is? All "things" in this world are neutral, they in and of themself do not determine how we see them, we see them through our own conditioned thoughts and then judge them through these conditioned thoughts we have been inundated with and believe to be the truth since birth. But are our beliefs the truth or only true to those who accept them as truth or in other words, believe them but don't know because they've never inquired in to the truth of what they've been conditioned to believe is true?
Can anything be not true? Truth is not divided, that which is not truth is false, thus falsity exists as an illusion of reality but once revealed for what it isn't then only truth remains. As darkness is only the lack of light, falsity is only the lack of truth. Does darkness exist, yes but only until there is light, same with falsity.
Silence cannot be divided Stillness cannot be divided Emptyness cannot be divided Thus, these are truth. Silence is not speaking or no sound, stillness is nonaction or no movement, emptyness is not knowing or no thoughts. One who is silent and still, whose mind is empty of himself, who can he harm?
Lets say there is a car accident and ten witness see it but all give similar but somewhat different stories of what happened. Did the accident happen ten different way's or only as it actually, factually happened? Whose is the truth? Who knows? This is the whole problem with man as he "thinks" he knows and makes judgments based in his thoughts instead of admitting he simply doesn't and cannot know the truth of the cause for everything if even anything. Man only sees the outside results of others thoughts but cannot know all the underlying thoughts, beliefs, assumptions, experiences, feelings, emotions, etc. that led up to the action one takes. Then he judges this person on only the outside action and condemns them as though he knows why they did what they did. I am not condoning violent actions, but simply showing that there are reasons that only the one who performed the action knows or in fact might not even be aware of such as false beliefs, that all pre seeded the actions taken. This is re-acting to ones thoughts or being controlled by the mind or simply deceiving yourself. This is why man "thought" up the devil, to put the blame for his ignorant actions outside of himself. Then there is the thought of God. All that you do and get that is good you thank "god" for, all that you do that is wrong or bad you blame the devil for thus you are not responsible for your life but everything outside of you is. This is falsity! Mind your master it controls you, master you mind you control it.
A man went to a female palm reader. The palm reader looked at his palm and said that he would have a long happy life. So the man got up and cut off both palms and bled to death right then and there. Did she lie or tell the truth or tell what she believed to be truth but never inquired into? In hindsight it seems as though she was lying but if she truly believed what she "thought" she was telling him was the truth, then was she in fact lying or just deceiving herself by her blind beliefs in her thoughts or what someone else CONN-vinced her was the truth about palm reading? This is the trouble with beliefs, we accept them as though they are the truth, when in truth we simply don't know!
How can one know, stop believing you know and that anybody else does either. Take total self responsibility for YOUR every thought, word and action. As all religions have been teaching..KNOW THYSELF! DON'T THINK YOU KNOW YOU, KNOW YOU OR KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW YOU.
LISTEN: The only person who ever deceives you is you!
If someone knowingly or unknowingly (believes what they're telling you is true but doesn't know) tells you a lie and you believe it, whose fault is this? It's your fault, you accepted a lie as the truth without inquiring into its truth and the truth may be that you DON'T KNOW or that you CAN'T KNOW and this is the truth, its OK not to know as KNOWING YOU DON'T KNOW IS THE TRUTH, KNOWING YOU MAY NEVER KNOW IS THE TRUTH BUT BELIEVING THAT YOU KNOW WHEN IN FACT (TRUTH) YOU DON'T KNOW IS FALSITY! Stop living in falsity!
Believe nothing I have written here, how do you know its true? Truth need not be believed, it is self evident.
Truth goes through 3 stages: First it is ridiculed (belief=ignorance), second it is violent opposed (fear of being wrong) and third it is accepted as self evident (cannot be denied=acceptance.) Seek truth for yourself!
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Post by withinsilence on Mar 13, 2012 2:01:58 GMT
Unfortunately words are our medium here, and that could explain a lot. What is a word but a thought? Can our words create a presence or a music?
Words behind words.
We need nothing, as we are always immersed in the divine. Nothing can our peace destroy.[/quote]
Yes, yes , yes. What is a thought but a combination of words? If all words are abstractions of reality then what is truly real.
Nothing can our peace destroy. This is truth as nothing is destroyed in peace, how could it be?
Is it not ironic that I called my name here within-silence but yet I find it impossible to be it? hahaha
Oh well, would not be my true nature to be only withinsilence. I think my next name will be long-winded. hehe
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Post by withinsilence on Mar 13, 2012 10:11:09 GMT
The outside world is a reflection of what is inside the thoughts of man/woman. What kind of world do you want it to be? Then be it!
Want hatred, then be hateful. Want vengeance, then be vengeful. Want sadness, then be sad. Want war, then be a warrior. Want kindness, then be kind. Want forgiveness, then be forgiving. Want happiness, then be happy. Want peace, then be peaceful.
You are constantly creating your own reality, what do you want, how do you want to feel?
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Post by popee on Mar 13, 2012 13:42:01 GMT
Lots to reflect on ... you guys were busy on the overnight shift .. lol
good stuff ws --- my point is not .. 'thinking is bad, and must be avoided'. Such a course would be folly. But ... recognizing that thought (specifically the I-thought) is the cause of delusion and suffering ... can be helpful.
My story on this: Say three years ago ... I was, as I'd always been, consumed by thought. You know ... that steady stream of words running across the screen .... tinkering, plotting, remembering, judging, justifying, rationalizing ... etc ... you get the point. Then I came across Eckhart Tolle, and listened intently ... but not as some sycophant follower ... but more like ... with complete trust in his pointing (which is important ... because in a way, that is like ceding autonomy)
I began observing my thoughts very closely ... and I came to see the foolishness they can cause. Then one day ... I realized I wasn't thinking anymore. I hadn't set out to achieve this state ... it wasn't a goal or anything ... it kinda just became that way. At first I was shocked ... and even a little scared ... as if I had 'lost my mind' or something. When I told my daughter that I had stopped thinking, she asked why ... and I said "I stopped trusting them, so apparently they got the hint .. lol".
From that moment on ... something changed. The person I am today barely resembles that man from before. Nearly a night and day type difference.
But the most important thing about this story ... (and the "night and day" changes are irrelevant really) ... but what stepping back from thought has helped me to do ... is to remember .. reconnect .. with the "changeless background of perfection" which is always there ... but 'obsessive thinking' often gets in the way of.
and I should add ... obviously, words still appear on my screen .. but I think you'd be surprised at their reduction in quantity .. I go for long stretches of time in blankness ... which is not some "duh" moment of inactivity ... everything that needs doing still gets done.
geez ... that was a mouthful .. lol ... just remember that this telling isn't very skilful .. but something similar to this happened
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Post by withinsilence on Mar 13, 2012 17:21:03 GMT
I basically, have gone through the same process popee. I was consumed with thought for 38 years and never had any peace "of mind" in my life.
After great suffering, depression, anxiety, and great mistakes which caused myself and my loved ones much suffering I sat one day in complete silence begging "God" for forgiveness, understanding, and a way out of suffering.
All "I" can say is that for the past 4 years "I" have been led on a journey that has brought "me" through a radical transformation where my wife wonders who she even married cause this man is nothing like the old man. It has been the most beautiful, scary, insane, at times feeling like "I" was losing "my" mind, greatest experience of my life.
Basically, I =ego died , well actually the illusion "I" was living in died and that which is not ego (reality) was born within. I have no worldly words to describe it, but I, as you also function mostly from center or no-unconscious thoughts that used to move me or that I would identify with . My heart is open and all it wants to do is help the world get to this divine state of peace and grace. As The Buddha said; "Everyone has Buddha nature." Buddha is not a man but a word that means "awakened" one, it is a level of consciousness that anyone can become aware of.
Also I am sorry if some of my writings seem harsh but sometimes the truth hurts, I do it because I care not to judge and please don't believe any of it, simply open your mind to the endless potentiality it truly is.
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Post by popee on Mar 13, 2012 18:38:11 GMT
Never worry about "harsh" ws ... if something said "hurts" ... I view it as a perfect opportunity to explore why it hurts. To root around in the cellar, so to speak, and work it out.
For me ... its all about .. going further.
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Post by popee on Mar 13, 2012 19:38:59 GMT
I am not enlightened. That is truly a jacked up word ... and highly misunderstood, imo.
Maybe .. there are stages of enlightenment .. and maybe I've climbed the ladder a rung or two .. but even saying that .. seems to have disaster written all over it ... somehow. Taking credit for anything is the road to ruin.
Pride cometh before the fall ...
A simple test perhaps ... is there a person on this planet that you love the most? imagine that person being raped and tortured. would that offend you?
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