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Post by withinsilence on Dec 19, 2011 21:41:58 GMT
Its very simple, quit identifying with your thoughts. You are not the mind but beyond it, we all are presence, awareness, consciousness. All the realized beings Jesus, Lao Tzu, Buddha, Krishna, Anthony DeMello, Vernon Howard, J. Krishnamurti, Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Ram Dass, Sai Baba, Rumi, Gurdjeff, Eckhart Tolle etc. they all have been telling humanity the same thing....get out of your thoughts, stop identifying with the mind and its illusions, and know thyself. That's it, nothing more to do just stop identifying with your thoughts. Its ok to think but one must know they're only thoughts and nothing more. Thoughts in and of them self have NO power over you unless YOU submit your volition to the mind! Weather its the past (memory) or the future (worry) it is only a thought and nothing more. All your fear, all your suffering, all you insecurity, all your identities, the me, the mine, my this and my that, its all thoughts of the ego and not "you". Simply stop identifying with the thoughts and watch how good you start to feel. If you feel bad, sad, depressed, angry, jealous, hateful, vengeance, pessimistic, negative in any way, this is all due to the thoughts your attaching the "you" or identity too. YOU ARE THE ONLY CAUSE OF ALL YOUR OWN SUFFERING! This is so simple but yet almost impossible to see as the ego self validates and finds something else to attach itself to. Your five sense work only in the now, everything else is a thought. You are Divine Consciousness, you are the truth, now what else do you want to know? You can either live by law and fear (ego=unconsciousness) or by love (pure consciousness) and compassion. The choice is yours, you get what you give. A good book that explains this is by Eckhart Tolle; A New Earth. Or one could simply sit in silence and watch the movement of its mind without reacting to any thought, but simply observe them. Its that simple. The whole world is simply caught up in mind identification or false identities so don't take what anybody says's or does too seriously as it all is only what they're "thinking" and they are just parrots repeating whatever thoughts are "on their mind!" Forgive them father for they know not what they do! They simply don't know they're caught up in mind identification, they literally "believe" they are their thoughts.
You are the thinker, the watcher, the conscious energy behind the thoughts, simply stand on the sidelines (in your mind) and watch them come and go. Do not grab onto them or run with them just watch. Look at life through the eyes and ears not through the mind such as this is beautiful and that is ugly, just look and don't compare, judge or think at all just watch. Try it you'll like it..eventually it will be much easier the more aware you become.
This is what all those realized beings were teaching and mans mind, his thoughts, interpretations, opinions, concepts, ideas, beliefs, theories- all just thoughts, took it and created a religion out of it because he believed (identified with the thoughts) that he knew what they were teaching. Man has remained in ignorance simply because he won't question his own thoughts, his own self, his beliefs, his identity for truth. Truth shall set you free from your own ignorance, beliefs keep you locked within it!
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Post by therealfake on Dec 19, 2011 22:36:08 GMT
What can be gained from pondering the unknowable? Seems like much could be lost though should one begin to believe their speculations Harumph. You are questioning the Truth of the God Theory? I see it as pointing out simplicity itself, by saying that only 'truth' is true... And although speculation or theory may point to the truth, it cannot be the truth. Only Truth can be the Truth. As simple as that sounds, it's really quite profound...heh
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Post by freethinker on Dec 20, 2011 0:04:29 GMT
You gents seem to be confusing hypothesis with theory... eh?
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Post by popee on Dec 20, 2011 0:50:22 GMT
Definition of THEORY 1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another 2 : abstract thought : speculation 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory> 4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all> 5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light> 6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture
===
yeah, I probably did lol
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 20, 2011 1:17:34 GMT
Those who know, do not speak Those who speak, do not know
Instead of stopping ones own head from hitting against the wall, is it not better to never have started?
One day I will practice my replies in context with the name I gave my being in this forum...within silence.hehe
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Post by freethinker on Dec 20, 2011 2:34:34 GMT
Eesh. I had intended to get farther into the consequential details of the God Theory in the morning. You folks, with the possible exception of Popee, are unfortunately not in the required exploratory mode. It is unnecessary to buy the 'story', but it is necessary to follow it, to accept, as a proposition, its foundation.
I am disappointed in your unwillingness to follow the unveiling of the concept-as-a-concept. Maybe you have been subjected to too much smoke? There are all sorts of carcinogens in there, you know.
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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 20, 2011 7:15:38 GMT
Its very simple, quit identifying with your thoughts. You are not the mind but beyond it, we all are presence, awareness, consciousness. All the realized beings Jesus, Lao Tzu, Buddha, Krishna, Anthony DeMello, Vernon Howard, J. Krishnamurti, Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Ram Dass, Sai Baba, Rumi, Gurdjeff, Eckhart Tolle etc. they all have been telling humanity the same thing....get out of your thoughts, stop identifying with the mind and its illusions, and know thyself. That's it, nothing more to do just stop identifying with your thoughts. Its ok to think but one must know they're only thoughts and nothing more. Thoughts in and of them self have NO power over you unless YOU submit your volition to the mind! Weather its the past (memory) or the future (worry) it is only a thought and nothing more. All your fear, all your suffering, all you insecurity, all your identities, the me, the mine, my this and my that, its all thoughts of the ego and not "you". Simply stop identifying with the thoughts and watch how good you start to feel. If you feel bad, sad, depressed, angry, jealous, hateful, vengeance, pessimistic, negative in any way, this is all due to the thoughts your attaching the "you" or identity too. YOU ARE THE ONLY CAUSE OF ALL YOUR OWN SUFFERING! This is so simple but yet almost impossible to see as the ego self validates and finds something else to attach itself to. Your five sense work only in the now, everything else is a thought. You are Divine Consciousness, you are the truth, now what else do you want to know? You can either live by law and fear (ego=unconsciousness) or by love (pure consciousness) and compassion. The choice is yours, you get what you give. A good book that explains this is by Eckhart Tolle; A New Earth. Or one could simply sit in silence and watch the movement of its mind without reacting to any thought, but simply observe them. Its that simple. The whole world is simply caught up in mind identification or false identities so don't take what anybody says's or does too seriously as it all is only what they're "thinking" and they are just parrots repeating whatever thoughts are "on their mind!" Forgive them father for they know not what they do! They simply don't know they're caught up in mind identification, they literally "believe" they are their thoughts. You are the thinker, the watcher, the conscious energy behind the thoughts, simply stand on the sidelines (in your mind) and watch them come and go. Do not grab onto them or run with them just watch. Look at life through the eyes and ears not through the mind such as this is beautiful and that is ugly, just look and don't compare, judge or think at all just watch. Try it you'll like it..eventually it will be much easier the more aware you become. This is what all those realized beings were teaching and mans mind, his thoughts, interpretations, opinions, concepts, ideas, beliefs, theories- all just thoughts, took it and created a religion out of it because he believed (identified with the thoughts) that he knew what they were teaching. Man has remained in ignorance simply because he won't question his own thoughts, his own self, his beliefs, his identity for truth. Truth shall set you free from your own ignorance, beliefs keep you locked within it! - Thanks for this long, rambling dissertation, Mr Talkative. I am quoting it in full in case you decide to remove it or edit it, in which case I hope my quotation will remain. It's the most useful bit of advice I've seen in a long time. I will try to bear this sage wisdom in mind. I agree, the sage is silent - then lucky for us you are not yet a complete sage, or you would be completely silent. And presumably unable to contribute to this forum any longer. Then I suppose one would have to make a pilgrimage to sit at his feet, something probably beyond my means.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 20, 2011 12:53:20 GMT
Eesh. I had intended to get farther into the consequential details of the God Theory in the morning. You folks, with the possible exception of Popee, are unfortunately not in the required exploratory mode. It is unnecessary to buy the 'story', but it is necessary to follow it, to accept, as a proposition, its foundation. I am disappointed in your unwillingness to follow the unveiling of the concept-as-a-concept. Maybe you have been subjected to too much smoke? There are all sorts of carcinogens in there, you know. 1. I don't smoke 2. My last reply was written for myself to remind myself to "listen" once in awhile and not try to "speak" so much but there is a little more behind it then only that. 3. No one but you is stopping you from expressing your theory, concept, hypothesis or whatever word you would like to call your probably well thought-out, extremely contemplated, psychological master piece of a result from an experience with that which is unseen and unheard by most and only within the individual. Your personal experience. 4. Give no mercy to your fear, we are all truly here for you, for us, because we want to share in these experiences, don't let anyone keep you from anything in life, but some may muddy the waters to see if one will still shine through it...what is there to be disappointed about when you have your own truth? Let it shine! 5. The world is not going to agree with you, nor will the majority of it listen to a damn thing you have to say regardless if your God himself walking and speaking on this earth. But you know, you have it within you and really that is all you will ever have, so never be afraid to share anything with anyone, who gives a rats ass what my ignorant ass thinks anyway...what do I truly know about the depths of you or anyone else anyway, I simply speak my own truth and experiences without needing approval or fear of rejection, although sometimes I get impatient and try to speak more and more to get a point across by this is my problem and not yours so don't let it bother you. And if the world does "think" you have found your own truth then they either worship or kill "you" instead of living the truth and then create an ignorant organization called freethinker-anity or freethinker-ism around your dead body and thow the truth in the toilet and never learn a damn thing simply because they never listened and looked within to find it for themself. Funny how the mind works? 6. I am willing to listen. 7. and Gurth, if one were to ever make that pilgrimage and sit at the sages feet, he would get up and leave because he knows he is not ready yet....to be within silence
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Post by freethinker on Dec 20, 2011 14:18:54 GMT
Hmm. Maybe I should lay out the program. What I am trying to do here is to construct a God Theory based on the foundation I have put before you. That this foundation is thoroughly unprovable speculation is deliberate. That the basic concepts don't resemble those of any established religion is deliberate. That its nature makes prayer fruitless, our actions our own responsibility - is deliberate.
What I hope for is a construct that is ingratiatingly clean and logical at its top. Can the construct be strong enough when completed that the quality of its foundation is irrelevant?
I need help with this; I am too scatter-brained to be a good architect.
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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 20, 2011 14:57:55 GMT
freethinker,
I think you are misunderstanding my use of the word "universe". I am using it in an all-inclusive sense, so it would not be logical to speak of anything outside the universe. And by anything I include God, of course : it's a simple matter of definition. And I include all unknown things, not merely galaxies, but thoughts, concepts and all experiences.
So, in terms of this definition, there can be no "parallel universes" because logically they all together still form a single whole.
I have to be able to conceive of everything as constituting a single whole. Then anything, including God, has only two options:
(1) To be a part of this whole, or (2) To be the whole of this whole.
Applying (1) to God leads to separation, as in Judaism, which regards God as standing outside his creation.
Applying (2) leads to yoga, union with God, finding the Kingdom within yourself rather than outside it.
I offer these ideas because you say you want to start off logically.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 20, 2011 15:58:37 GMT
Lay it out. Can one construct a cup without the clay? Will the cup stand on its own without the need of the saucer? Let's build it and find out!
There is more total self responsibility in this forum than may meet your eyes.
I know there is nothing this group can't construct, weather or not it is of any use is not my concern, I simply enjoy working together.
I think we're all on the same page as far as your deliberate foundational precepts are concerned.
Here is what I have heard within your God Theory so far:
1. You haven't defined God yet. You tell us what He's not but not what He is.
2. You tell us where He's not but not where He is.
3. You tell us His sense's are not ours but not what His are.
4. You tell us the time dimension doesn't exist in any form "we" would recognize, but I must ask if "we" can't recognize it then how would you know this? Do "you" recognize "it?"
5. You say that neither immortality or eternity have any meaning to His universe, but yet you still fail to name this universe. Is His universe eternal or immortal, oh wait they're the same damn thing!
6. You say He has the equivalent of a low wattage transmitter but don't tell us how many watts, how it works and why is it low instead of high? And how many watts exactly does it take to communicate from His unknown universe you never mention anyway? What kind of receiver does one need to receive these low wattage communications and who has it and how is it used and when do you use it and for how long is the channel open and why is it open in the first place if neither immortality or eternity have any meaning? What exactly is the equivalent of this low wattage transmitter?
7. This creche for souls part of your theory is about the only logical unprovable concept I understand so far and its as old as the souls who are going through it.
8. You say He wants to know the souls in this creche but you don't say why. Why does He want to know the soul? Where did the soul come from, originate, and where is this imaginative place it is headed towards where it matters not if there is eternity or if the soul is immortal?
9. On the ramifications that you have yet to enlighten us with, what are they based on? Freewill or not freewill? If there is freewill then who granted it, and if one granted it then how could it hold that which it gave freewill to accountable for using that very thing in which it gave? If there is not freewill, then we're all a bunch of robots doing the bidding of some very sick but yet all powerful energies who in reality are just amusing them self for a purpose they haven't let my ignorant puppet being in on yet.
Namaste
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Post by therealfake on Dec 20, 2011 16:11:19 GMT
TRF's God Theory, The world appears dualistic because that's the only way that anything can take form, including ourselves. Everything is here, now in this moment, before it takes form. For example, sound has to exist everywhere 'before' sound can be heard or made in the world of form. What we are, has to exist everywhere, 'before' we take the human form, otherwise we couldn't take the human form. When there is no form, everything including what we are, is still here. Existing before existence takes form and existing after existence loses it's form, is the wholeness, the oneness, which we are as the totality of the formless and the form... But it's just my theory...
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Post by freethinker on Dec 20, 2011 16:50:22 GMT
Hah. Thanks folks. I am thoroughly out of place here.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 20, 2011 20:35:20 GMT
Verse 44 of the Tao Te Ching:
Fame or integrity: Which is more important? Money or happiness: Which is more valuable? Success or failure: Which is more destructive?
If you look to others for fulfillment, you will never truly be fulfilled. If your happiness depends on things, you will never be happy with yourself.
Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.
Freethinker, you were not nor are out of place here but are exactly where you needed to be. There is a reason you were invited to this forum.
16th Verse of the Tao Te Ching:
Empty your mind of all thoughts. Let your heart be at peace. Watch all the turmoil of beings, but contemplate their return.
Each separate being in the universe returns to the common source. Returning to the source is serenity.
If you don't realize the source, you stumble in confusion and sorrow. When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandmother, dignified as a king. Immersed in the wonder of the Tao, you can deal with whatever life brings you, and when death comes, you are ready.
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Post by popee on Dec 20, 2011 21:07:57 GMT
Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you. that is like my favorite verse in the whole friggin thing == and yeah, freethinker ... don't sweat it besides ... still waiting on that theory
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