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Post by freethinker on Dec 17, 2011 18:01:11 GMT
I am not a member of any established religion, though I have read about some of them. I was raised in a family of 'lapsed' Episcopalians, and never baptized because my family had come to believe that baptism should be an informed decision (though they were, I think, unaware of the Anabaptists). I was an agnostic for most of my life, until -under rather amusing conditions that I may reveal sometime - I had a Religious Experience. Since then, either by subtle instruction from God or by replete-with-error ratiocination, I have generated a Theory. A Theory that leaves in the Unknown category much too much to be capable of generating a Following, but hey, we can't all be a Messiah/Buddha/Etcetera.
[to be continued]
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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 17, 2011 18:42:45 GMT
Can't wait to hear more - now I see that should not be taken literally, it doesn't mean that at all. Of course I can wait, for ever if needed.
Nietzsche said "A mob success is a small success."
I think if I had exactly one follower, that would be one too many for me. Even if it was me myself.
When our cat walks down the passage, I follow it, taking care not to get ahead.
And Disraeli said: "I must follow the people. Am I not their leader?"
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 17, 2011 21:08:09 GMT
There's no greater teacher then personal life experience. It can make the greatest skeptic into the greatest believer or actually I should say know-er as belief is not needed when you have experience. hehe
Sounds awe-some freethinker. I don't think any of us here are looking to create a following as I see us all with a firm understanding of unconditional freedom of expression with no one saying that this or that is the only way. We may all be a little biased towards our own experiences, interpretations and concepts but I feel that we all are here to learn, share and work towards the greater good and benefit of the whole.
Look forward to sharing in your theory as it may be what some of us need to hear in order to help us on our own path...who knows?
I am not a member of any worldly religion either and have studied many of them. I will never label myself as this or that as that in and of itself creates separation, division, judgment and condemnation. I simply practice as best I can undiscriminating virtue and have a reverence for all life. Yes I still fall short but all anyone can do is get up each day and set out to be the best he can and learn from all the mistakes.hehe
Even the best men are only men at best! Unknown
Give no mercy to your fear and there is nothing you can't over come!
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Post by freethinker on Dec 18, 2011 19:23:02 GMT
...Since then, either by subtle instruction from God or by replete-with-error ratiocination, I have generated a Theory. A Theory that leaves in the Unknown category much too much to be capable of generating a Following, but hey, we can't all be a Messiah/Buddha/Etcetera. First a few major I-Don't-Knows. My God Theory has a lot of IDKs, which is one more reason it will stay personal. Did God create the universe? IDK. My guess is, probably not. This also means that He didn't create man in his image, nor did he design evolution. Is God omnipotent? IDK. My guess is, probably not - in this universe anyway. Does God "see the sparrow's fall"? IDK. My guess is, he can if he wants to, but I don't know if He wants to. __________________________________________________ At this point it makes sense (if any of this makes sense) to invite members to pose other major questions regarding God's nature. If they seem to be necessary background I will give them IDK status, or tell you that they will be covered in my exposition of the God Theory. |
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Post by therealfake on Dec 18, 2011 23:16:30 GMT
I like that, I don't know... Not only do I not know, but I don't believe what I do know, unless I've experienced it. Osho thinks that being a skeptic is a step away from being a mystic... But I don't believe that...heh So I'm not one for asking The Nature of God questions, but the one to question them...  |
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Post by freethinker on Dec 19, 2011 2:38:18 GMT
I like that, I don't know... Not only do I not know, but I don't believe what I do know, unless I've experienced it. Osho thinks that being a skeptic is a step away from being a mystic... But I don't believe that...heh So I'm not one for asking The Nature of God questions, but the one to question them... It appears that you are unlikely to be one of the followers of FreeThinker the Prophet. Oh well... |
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Post by gurthbruins on Dec 19, 2011 5:03:12 GMT
Did God create the universe? IDK. My guess is, probably not. This also means that He didn't create man in his image, nor did he design evolution. Is God omnipotent? IDK. My guess is, probably not - in this universe anyway. Does God "see the sparrow's fall"? IDK. My guess is, he can if he wants to, but I don't know if He wants to. __________________________________________________ At this point it makes sense (if any of this makes sense) to invite members to pose other major questions regarding God's nature. If they seem to be necessary background I will give them IDK status, or tell you that they will be covered in my exposition of the God Theory. I think it's fun to discuss these questions. IMO: 1. God did not create the universe, he is the universe, never created himself so always existed... did not create man in his own image... might or might not have 'designed evolution'. 2. God has all the power there is, because as he contains everything, there can be no power outside him. So simple! But this power is limited. God cannot change the past, and he cannot break his own laws - the laws of the universe. Even his free will is limited to the ultra-micro and ultra-macro domains. The laws apparently enforce determinism in the non-ultra domains. But don't forget, we are all parts of God, so might have some of this limited free-will as well. 3. What does God see, and what does he care about? There I wouldn't like to guess even... it's purely up to him! 4. New questions: Is God love? Is God compassionate? Is God good? - God is none of these things. He cannot be equated with any half of a duality-pair, because he is the sum of the parts of the duality-pair. So: he is good and evil, cruel and kind, loving and hating, beautiful and ugly, etc. 5. Is there a power and intelligence greater than human power and intelligence? - Pretty clearly, I'd say. 6. Could the universe in its present state have come about by chance? - If I look more closely into the meaning of this question, I find it based, as so many other questions, on a questionable assumption. In this case, the assumption that the word 'chance' has any real meaning. I for one can't see any real meaning in it. 7. Could God simply be Time Itself, "Creative Evolution" (Evolucion Creatrice), the creator of the universe afresh every moment? |
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 19, 2011 13:06:17 GMT
Did God create the universe? IDK. My guess is, probably not. This also means that He didn't create man in his image, nor did he design evolution. Is God omnipotent? IDK. My guess is, probably not - in this universe anyway. Does God "see the sparrow's fall"? IDK. My guess is, he can if he wants to, but I don't know if He wants to. __________________________________________________ At this point it makes sense (if any of this makes sense) to invite members to pose other major questions regarding God's nature. If they seem to be necessary background I will give them IDK status, or tell you that they will be covered in my exposition of the God Theory. I think it's fun to discuss these questions. IMO: 1. God did not create the universe, he is the universe, never created himself so always existed... did not create man in his own image... might or might not have 'designed evolution'. 2. God has all the power there is, because as he contains everything, there can be no power outside him. So simple! But this power is limited. God cannot change the past, and he cannot break his own laws - the laws of the universe. Even his free will is limited to the ultra-micro and ultra-macro domains. The laws apparently enforce determinism in the non-ultra domains. But don't forget, we are all parts of God, so might have some of this limited free-will as well. 3. What does God see, and what does he care about? There I wouldn't like to guess even... it's purely up to him! 4. New questions: Is God love? Is God compassionate? Is God good? - God is none of these things. He cannot be equated with any half of a duality-pair, because he is the sum of the parts of the duality-pair. So: he is good and evil, cruel and kind, loving and hating, beautiful and ugly, etc. 5. Is there a power and intelligence greater than human power and intelligence? - Pretty clearly, I'd say. 6. Could the universe in its present state have come about by chance? - If I look more closely into the meaning of this question, I find it based, as so many other questions, on a questionable assumption. In this case, the assumption that the word 'chance' has any real meaning. I for one can't see any real meaning in it. 7. Could God simply be Time Itself, "Creative Evolution" (Evolucion Creatrice), the creator of the universe afresh every moment? If we are we trying to describe "God" or "Ruler" of this planet and people based on only Biblical language and concepts as "Creator" and "in the Image of" or as the "Western" idea of "Him" this is very limiting. But simply "God" is the primordial chaos, the undifferentiated Hundun that split a part of itself into Yin and Yang, good and bad etc. or duality=separation but still remained whole within itself. The original wholeness is still at the top of the triangle with Yin on the lower left and Yang of the lower right of the same triangle thus Yin and Yang together (unity, balance) is wholeness. It could be likened to the instinctual, animal nature (unconscious mind) of man uniting with the reasoning (conscious mind) intuitional nature of "realized" man thus also going from separation to unity or as Jesus said; "When the two become one." Without duality there are no experiences in life, i.e. hot, cold, love, hate, etc. Thoughts create duality, duality brings experiences, experiences brings suffering, suffering causes one to either continue in it "believing" that is all there is or end their life thus "Giving up" on them self or to seek, ask, knock and search for the originating "first cause" of why one is suffering and thus find the cause of it "Your unconscious thoughts" and know the cure for it i.e. "Raising your level of consciousness." God wants to share its self in manifested form and thus must perfect its separated unperfected self to create a perfected physical, manifested form to inhabit the world eventually. As in truth, there is no reason other than mans unconsciousness (ignorance) why this world cant be united instead of divided. Man (mind, body, soul) was created in ignorance and its his purpose to move up the ladder of consciousness individually through his experiences of life (lifetimes) thus raising the collective level of consciousness in all of humanity as he grows out of separation and back to unity or from darkness to light, ignorance to gnosis etc. The originating source (whole) cannot be divided, or both good and bad but is only pure, thus all knowing and perfect. If it was bad it would not "give" of itself as that which is bad would only take as "criminals" or the ignorant do. Only that which is unconditionally loving gives life. All one has to do is look at how nature gives of itself freely to everyone to see the originating nature of the source. Now being all knowing it may use the negative experiences to bring out the positive and thus bring one back to unity, but its origination is unity not separation. Simply God knows that by not doing his will you create your own suffering and will eventually (after many lifetimes) climb your way out of its hole and up the ladder to unity or "His will." Or if you accept and do his will you won't suffer (too much) and will live in a unified state of oneness (high level consciousness) and live and enjoy a simple life. This plane of existence is to help perfect the lost, ignorant, in darkness, evil souls and bring them to a harvestable state to move to another plane for continued growth. We have free will as anything done under compulsion is not "truth" just as you cant make anyone love you, the law of free will is just that and can't be anything else. Now once man becomes realized and starts to work toward the good of all then the universe begins to work with you and helps you on your path back to unity. Actually I think the universe always is willing to work with you, we just fight against it or aren't "aware" of it until we are realized. Further proof for the true nature of God is revealed in those who have attained "the kingdom of heaven" "Nirvana" "enlightenment" or "realization" as not one of them i.e. Jesus, Buddha, Lao-Tzu, Osho, etc. harmed, judged, condemned or treated anybody "unfairly" except maybe as a lesson for one to grow. Unconditional love=compassion is the highest unified energy. God teaches by not-doing thus through life experience the soul is brought to perfection in truth, for how else does one find its own truth without its own free will? |
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Post by freethinker on Dec 19, 2011 15:20:03 GMT
Interesting notions, guys, but you have wandered far from the Truth - as revealed in the God Theory. The First Considerations: God is not of our universe, and has limited contact with it. His senses are not ours, but in rough approximation - 1) He can observe the contents of our universe, at any point in time from the Big Bang onward. This is because for him time does not flow, in fact the time dimension doesn't exist in any form we would recognize. As a side effect of this, He can be regarded as immortal, though neither immortality nor eternity have meaning in his universe. 2) He has the equivalent of a low wattage transmitter; he can communicate with us, if we manage to shut up long enough. the weakness of his 'signal', combined with our inability to shut up, has caused some severely garbled messages, reflected in the several religions, major and minor. 3) He undertakes the task (if indeed it is a task for Him) of observation and occasional attempted communication because our world is a sort of creche - a creche for souls. These souls will join Him in his universe when released from our bodies, and He has some reason for wanting to know the soul before it gets there. [Those are the bare basics of the God Theory. There is more, mostly having to do with ramifications, but you may already have read more than enough. The immediate practical consideration is that He will help us when we get There, but we are pretty much on our own while we are Here.]
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Post by popee on Dec 19, 2011 16:52:20 GMT
What can be gained from pondering the unknowable?
Seems like much could be lost though
should one begin to believe their speculations
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 19, 2011 16:55:32 GMT
one can't wander from the truth of a "theory" as "theory" is nothing more than a thought of the mind, it lies in the I don't know but it may be this based on that category and is not truth.
Every ones direct experience of "God" is directly related to the individuals own unique understanding and present level of conscious awareness. None will be exactly the same as "God" is unlimited in its expression in form. We are saying the same thing in different interpretations based on our varying present levels of conscious awareness. Yours will be suited for you and mine for me and so on. But the primordial integral principle is unity, oneness, the Monad of Pythagoras, the I AM of the Bible, the Father of Jesus, the Tao of Lao Tzu, the Universal Mind of Buddha, the Undifferentiated Hundun of Hinduism, Spirit, Pure Consciousness, Perfect Balanced Energy etc. Too many words to describe the indescribable.
This is why silence is the truest form of communication as when human-be-ings are able to just be, without thought, in deep silent meditation the energy of the beings present and the room itself is balanced, one of unity, peace and grace.
What was before belief-knowing
What was before sound-silence
What was before motion-stillness
What was before form-emptiness-void-no-thing=spirit
Thus knowing, silence, stillness, emptiness is the eternal originating primordial integral truth, the all and forever conscious energy of every-thing and no-thing, the form and the formless.
Be still and know the I Am which is known in silence, when one is emptied and realizes it is no-thing.
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Post by popee on Dec 19, 2011 17:02:50 GMT
I like that, I don't know...So I'm not one for asking The Nature of God questions, but the one to question them... Yes, "I don't know" is good. Case closed. End of story. But man is never satisfied. He wants more. "I Am" is good. Here. Now. Nothing less, nothing more. |
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Post by freethinker on Dec 19, 2011 18:52:38 GMT
What can be gained from pondering the unknowable? Seems like much could be lost though should one begin to believe their speculations Harumph. You are questioning the Truth of the God Theory? |
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Post by popee on Dec 19, 2011 20:03:37 GMT
nah .. yours is as good as any ones |
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Post by popee on Dec 19, 2011 20:25:52 GMT
... until -under rather amusing conditions that I may reveal sometime - I had a Religious Experience. I'd be interested in hearing that story should you ever feel so inclined to share it |
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