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Post by popee on Nov 26, 2012 17:43:15 GMT
"God" is an interesting word, one that I seldom use I like the Tao telling ... 'that which can not be named' words, concepts, opinions, distinctions, dogma ... that's got trouble written all over it next thing you know you might disagree with someone elses telling might even go on a crusade or something but, surrendering all that the small self thinks he possesses to the One that deserves All of the credit ... sounds like a plan to me
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 26, 2012 18:44:35 GMT
I understand your point of view popee, yet I thank existence that some who have entered the journey, or even transcended the mind do have the courage to share what they've experienced, to help encourage others to look into the beyond.
If it was not for those sages of past who dedicated their lives to this search and those who wrote down the experiences I may still be lost within the dark. So, I feel that what has been shared needs to continue to be shared, and I think that many want it yet need a bit of encouragement or a boost to go and seek, hence I do what I can to help.
The people I share spiritual teachings with are usually floored by its wisdom and thirst for more of it once they see that its not against them but for them. Had I not shared they may still be wandering, all I try to do is shine a little light. What else can we do but give of our self?
You may well be the catalyst needed for one to change, its not that I go looking for students as I am no teacher, yet when an opportunity presents itself and I feel moved to share, I do it as best I can.
What can go wrong when you trust in the source that is also within you?
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Post by popee on Nov 26, 2012 19:46:18 GMT
[psychology]
godspeed
;D
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 27, 2012 12:03:33 GMT
The moment of the present is an illusion. We never see the present, we only see the recent past, even if it is one trillionth of a second in time ago, it is still past. And the moment of the future will surely come, we shall not escape it and we cannot fail to be mastered by it. What can dissolve the mind but the mind itself? The mind dissolves itself, you don't need to do it. maybe consider the possibility that your conclusion is not final answer - keep digging past and future are both fiction .. thoughts and imagination only present is True I wonder if maybe we've been missing it all together with this past, future and present, quarreling over whether or not it exists, existed, or is going to exist? what if none of them are real or all of them are illusions? the only moment that ever occurs IS eternal or eternity. it matters not what you believe there to be or when you believe it to be, it always happens along with or within the momentum of the movement of eternity. Yes you can reflect on a past moment but it is done within the continuum of eternity and is viewed only as a picture or a projection of the experience on to the screen of the mind, thus the projected contents being played on the screen is not happening in the outer world but only within the space that consciousness is, hence "you" are the thinker and the thought, the projector and the projected, yet you cannot be the contents of the thought or the projection because "you" are the ONE observing it and its the body which feel its affects as though its reality. These feelings will continue to be felt until one comes to the realization that it is not the contents of the thought and ceases to identify with them thus coming into the full knowledge of what exactly "it" is. It is not the outer body that is viewing these thoughts or projecting them, this should be ones first sign that they are not "only" a body. When this happens, when the mind (thinking) slows down long enough for one to actually experience observing its thoughts and seeing their harmless arbitrary nature, then "thought" has a very limited affect on the "being" and consciousness begins to "operate" or "works" from a much "higher" perspective of itself. Whether its a projection of a past experience, or a future imagination, the effects are the same until one understands the relationship of "its" thinking to "its" thoughts. This simple yet very misunderstood and unknown truth can all be summed up in the simple statement: "What a man "thinks" he becomes!" or "you reap (feel) what you sow (think about). The more attention (energy) one gives to a thought, the greater the affect the thought has and can eventually be made manifest as can be seen by your own actions throughout your life. If you observe your feelings, they will point you to what your thinking about as they are "originally" the result, not the cause of your thoughts. This all happens in fractions of a second, or very very subtle, so without entering silence and complete relaxation it is almost impossible to experience, and just because you may believe this can't be true, does not make your belief true as truth is only known through experience.
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Post by popee on Nov 27, 2012 13:12:37 GMT
maybe consider the possibility that your conclusion is not [ the] final answer I shoulda fixed that typo/omission the first time I noticed it. crap, modified, meant to quote. lol
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 27, 2012 13:34:25 GMT
maybe consider the possibility that your conclusion is not final answer - keep digging past and future are both fiction .. thoughts and imagination only present is True I wonder if maybe we've been missing it all together with this past, future and present, quarreling over whether or not it exists, existed, or is going to exist? what if none of them are real or all of them are illusions? the only moment that ever occurs IS eternal or eternity. it matters not what you believe there to be or when you believe it to be, it always happens along with or within the momentum of the movement of eternity. Yes you can reflect on a past moment but it is done within the continuum of eternity and is viewed only as a picture or a projection of the experience on to the screen of the mind, thus the projected contents being played on the screen is not happening in the outer world but only within the space that consciousness is, hence "you" are the thinker and the thought, the projector and the projected, yet you cannot be the contents of the thought or the projection because "you" are the ONE observing it and its the body which feel its affects as though its reality. These feelings will continue to be felt until one comes to the realization that it is not the contents of the thought and ceases to identify with them thus coming into the full knowledge of what exactly "it" is. It is not the outer body that is viewing these thoughts or projecting them, this should be ones first sign that they are not "only" a body. When this happens, when one slows down long enough to actually experience observing its thoughts and seeing their harmless arbitrary nature, then "thought" has a very limited affect on the "being" and consciousness begins to "operate" or "works" from a much "higher" perspective of itself. Whether its a projection of a past experience, or a future imagination, the effects are the same until one understands the relationship of "its" thinking to "its" thoughts. This simple yet very misunderstood and unknown truth can all be summed up in the simple statement: "What a man "thinks" he becomes!" or "you reap (feel) what you sow (think about). The more attention (energy) one gives to a thought, the greater the affect the thought has and can eventually be made manifest as can be seen by your own actions throughout your life. If you observe your feelings, they will point you to what your thinking about as they are "originally" the result, not the cause of your thoughts. This all happens in fractions of a second, or very very subtle, so without entering silence and complete relaxation it is almost impossible to experience, and just because you may believe this can't be true, does not make your belief true as truth is only known through experience. This is better explained in the book; "Sanity, Insanity and Commonsense" by Roger C mills, Rick Suarez and Darlene Stewart. I cannot recommend this book enough for an understanding on the workings of the human mind.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 3, 2012 21:24:12 GMT
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 11, 2012 14:07:30 GMT
Here are lyrics to a song called "Hello" from the band Evanescence. It is about the singer being told at school that her 3 year old sister died suddenly. This is her heart felt recollection of the experience and a fantastic explanation of how the mind works to help "you" in times of extreme pain. The words in italics can reveal something to you, if you look within yourself you may see that this may be "what" your living from or "who" your living as. Much of the world lives as the lie, keeping blocked the true nature of spirit, locked behind a false front or ego=identity. I have included a link if you wish to listen to this beautiful song. You will notice a profound difference when you read the lyrics vs. listening to the writer sing them with intense emotion, very moving. Playground school bell rings again Rain clouds come to play again Has no one told you she's not breathing? Hello, I'm your mind giving you someone to talk to Hello If I smile and don't believe Soon I know I'll wake from this dream Don't try to fix me, I'm not broken Hello, I'm the lie living for you so you can hide Don't cry Suddenly, I know I'm not sleeping Hello, I'm still here All that's left of yesterday www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qvChB9COEE
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 18, 2012 14:42:00 GMT
Taken from Patanjali's Yoga Sutras:
In Pure Integrity in All Our Relations, yoga (Union) is all-ways available here and now (in the sacred present), and as such, it is at once, the arrival, the abiding, and the unborn universal presence, which when experienced is recognized instantaneously as our true spiritual home. The yogi learns to recognize when he/she has arrived home.
Enough by David Whyte
Enough. These few words are enough. If not these words, this breath. If not this breath, this sitting here.
This opening to the life we have refused again and again until now.
Until now.
Yoga (Union) occurs when the field of consciousness is liberated from its patterned and restrictive variegated instabilities and spinning. Then the mind abides in the domain of innate clear essentiality -- in clarified spaciousness devoid of any conditioned bias, tilt, or spin.
It also could be stated that there exists an object that is being transformed from an active state to a stillness (the citta-vrtti), but such is a dualistic statement capable of amplifying dualistic practices with dualistic results. Nirodha is better understood by pointing out that it is not the mind that is being stilled or controlled; rather, the machinations and habits (vrtti) that have become attached to the consciousness (and which obscure it), which have been patterning the afflicted mind in dysfunctional circles is now becoming self-liberated. By the idea of "control" an independent outside operator is imputed. That is why yoga practice is to be undertaken as process oriented, versus goal oriented, the seed of the fruit/result is in the practice/path, mutually co-arising in synergistic synchronicity.
In yoga, the machinations of the citta-vrtti come to a halt, through innately informed functional process oriented practices, and hence awareness deepens accordingly; the yogi wakes up. Then the larger Mind's eye is opened, and with better vision (vidya), the cosmos opens. One sees with heightened clarity. One trips over their untied shoe laces less often. Hence when the mindfield is emptied of all fragmented content and impediments, a dramatic shift takes place. The wisdom eye is activated and shines forth inside which allows it to recognize itself outside as well then "Reality" is seen as-it-is, in its true non-dual nature (swarupa).
When such limited associations, self identifications, or attachments with the thought processes (vrtti) cease (nirodha), then the self resides in its true non-biased abode -- as the True Self or natural unconditioned mind (citta). Nirodha, as cessation is thus passive to an extreme, yet yogic processes (sadhana) themselves are activities (active) as we shall see. They are designed to bring upon this effect (dissolution) of the vrtti.
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 18, 2012 15:01:49 GMT
Please read post #38 first and follow with this.
Meditation is a mirror where the one looking in the mirror to see the cause of its suffering is shown the cure when it recognizes its own reflection.
The purpose of meditation.
The ordinary person who does not meditate has much fun to look forward to as meditation practice empties the mind of its tensions and occlusions, while revealing the truth and true happiness contained herein, because meditation is the act of dissolution/cessation -- of emptying and clearing out of the citta-vrtti. As this dissolution process subsides the waves the practitioner (sadhak) is afforded the opportunity to know their own mind (the instrument and window of consciousness) directly, thus becomes clear. This happens from inside out and outside in, simultaneously wherein the true nature of Self and existence is revealed. What could be more empowering and direct?
When we meditate we become aware of the instrument of our own mind, its wavelike operations, and mechanisms. This awareness of our own mind and its movements allows us to see more clearly by allowing us to fine tune the instrument, so to speak. We are able to change our mind from rambling and limited thought chatterings to open naked awareness . Having freed the mind from that prison thus bestows upon the sadhak (practitioner of yoga) great liberation of clear seeing (drastuh). This is greatly empowering, because we now have the opportunity to see how the mind mechanisms and habits work to color and distort "reality-as-it-is. Then we can take control of our own lives more effectively. When the dirt and obstructions from the lens is removed (shuddhi), normal perception becomes unclouded and, the mind field becomes liberated from ordinary content, the awareness becomes expanded to the true nature of mind, and then we are able to access and rest there in heightened joyful awareness at will.
After we start to meditate, we notice that the "ordinary mind-field " (victimized by the vrtti) is both restricted and limited. We call the turbulent aspect of the vrtti, the monkey or discursive mind, which moves through the actions of vrtti. In Sanskrit there are many words for mind depending upon what is governing the mind. The "normal" ordinary mind (called manas) as well as intellectual function (buddhi) are a dim reflections of pure citta. All intelligence depends upon the pure cit (or as we will see in later sutras upon purusha) as its source. Meditation is the process where the vrtti reach cessation, subside, and rest in stillness and complete dissolution. When the cessation (nirodha) occurs the citta-vrittayas being empty -- then samadhi begins -- the self luminous clear light (the light that brings forth clarity) of pure universal transpersonal consciousness (cit) dawns. Thus dhyana is one such effective and active yoga practice which leads to union (samadhi). At first there exits small glimpses as the clouds of vrtti dissipate, while later the experience of samadhi becomes increasingly integrated and continuous as All Our Relations (culminating in nirbija samadhi).
Water, if you don’t stir it,
will become clear;
the mind, left unaltered,
will find it own natural peace.”
Sogyal Rinpoche
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Post by popee on Dec 20, 2012 21:20:11 GMT
nice knowing ya ... (just in case the world blows up tomorrow)
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Post by withinsilence on Dec 20, 2012 22:50:22 GMT
you too my friend, yet I think we will still wake up tomorrow.
May the grace of peace in a silent mind put to rest your sleepless nights.
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Post by withinsilence on Jan 7, 2013 17:14:29 GMT
Open Secret 53
Seeing it Simply (also pub. The Mountain Path, July 1964.)
It is surely axiomatic that a phenomenon (an appearance, an object) cannot perform any action whatever on its own initiative, as an independent entity. In China this was illustrated by Chuang Tzu in his story of the sow who died while suckling her piglets: the little pigs just left her because their mother was no longer there. In Europe, even at that early date, the same understanding is expressed by the word animus which 'animates' the phenomenal aspect of sentient beings, and this forms the basis of most religious beliefs. But whereas in the West the 'animus' was regarded as personal to each phenomenal object, being the sentience of it, in the East the 'animus' was called 'heart' or 'mind' or 'consciousness', and in Buddhism and Vedanta was regarded as impersonal and universal, 'Buddha-mind', 'Prajna', 'Atman', etc.
When this impersonal 'mind' comes into manifestation by objectifying itself as subject and object, it becomes identified with each sentient object, and the concept of 'I' thereby arises in human beings, whereby the phenomenal world as we know it and live it, appears to be what we call 'real'. That, incidentally, is the only 'reality' (thing-ness) we can ever know, and to use the term 'real' (a thing) for what is not such, for the purely subjective, is an abuse of language.
In this process of personalising 'mind' and thinking of it as 'I', we thereby make it, which is subject, into an object, whereas 'I' in fact can never be such, for there is nothing objective in 'I', which is essentially a direct expression of subjectivity. This objectivising of pure subjectivity, calling it 'me' or calling it 'mind', is precisely what constitutes 'bondage'. It is this concept, called the I-concept or ego or self, which is the supposed bondage from which we all suffer and from which we seek 'liberation'.
It should be evident, as the Buddha and a hundred other Awakened sages have sought to enable us to understand, that what we are is this 'animating' mind as such, which is noumenon, and not the phenomenal object to which it gives sentience. This does not mean, however, that the phenomenal object has no kind of existence whatever, but that its existence is merely apparent, which is the meaning of the term 'phenomenon'; that is to say, that it is only an appearance in consciousness, an objectivisation, without any nature of its own, being entirely dependent on the mind that objectivises it, which mind is only nature, very much as is the case of any dreamed creature, as the Buddha in the Diamond Sutra, and many others after him have so patiently explained to us.
This impersonal, universal mind or consciousness, is our true nature, our only nature, all, absolutely all, that we are, and is completely devoid of I-ness.
This is easy enough to understand, and it would be simple indeed if it were the ultimate truth, but it is not, for the obvious reason that no such thing as an objective 'mind' could exist, any more than an 'I' or any other object, as a thing-in-itself. What it is, however, is totally devoid of any objective quality, and so cannot be visualised, conceptualised, or in any way referred to, for any such process would automatically render it an object of subject - which by definition it can never be. This is because the mind in question is the unmanifested source of manifestation, the process of which is its division into subject and object; and antecedent to such division there can be no subject to perceive an object, and no object to be perceived by a subject. Indeed, and as revealed by such sages as Padma Sambhava, that which is seeking to conceive and to name this unmanifested source of manifestation is precisely this 'whole mind' which is the 'animating' or 'prajnaic' functioning which itself is the seeking, so that the sought is the seeker thereof. Profoundly to understand this is Awakening to what is called 'enlightenment'.
This reasoned visualisation, therefore, like all doctrine, is merely conceptual, devoid of factuality, a structure of theoretical imagination, a symbolic diagram devised in order to enable us to understand something immediate that can never become knowledge. Yet that ultimate 'something', which is no 'thing', is nevertheless what the universe is, and is all that we are.
The psychological 'I-concept' has no nature of its own, is no 'thing', and could not possibly create genuine 'bondage'. There cannot be any such thing as bondage at all, but only the idea of such. There is no liberation, for there is no thing from which to be freed. If the whole conceptual structure is seen as what it is, it must necessarily collapse, and the bondage-enlightenment nonsense with it. That is called Awakening, awakening to the natural state which is that of every sentient being. Sri Ramana Maharshi taught just that when he said that 'enlightenment' is only being rid of the notion that one is not 'enlightened', and Maharshi might have been quoting the T'ang dynasty Chinese sage Hui Hai, known as the Great Pearl, when he stated that Liberation is liberation from the notion of 'liberation'. He might also have been quoting Huang Po (d.850), of whom he is unlikely ever to have heard, when they both used the same words, full of humour, to someone asking about 'his' mind: each sage asked in reply,'How many minds have you?'
How many minds had they, those two young men? Why, none at all. Not only not two, but not one. Nor were they themselves a 'mind', for there could not be such a thing as a 'mind' for them to be. Neither 'they' nor 'mind' ever had, or ever could have, any objective being whatever, for never has any kind of objective being been, nor will such ever be. All that, and every 'that' which ever was thought up - and 'that' is the most purely objective of pronouns - is the essence of the gigantic phantasmagoria of objectivity, which we spend our lives building up, and in which we search desperately for some 'truth' which could not possibly be there. The whole vast construction is a phantasy, a dream, as the Buddha (or whoever wrote it in his name) told us in the Diamond Sutra, and the truth which a dream represents, or misrepresents, of which it is a reflection or a deflection, is the dreaming source of it which is all that it is. That source can never have a name, because a name denotes a phenomenon - and there is no phenomenal dreamer, but a functioning that is called dreaming. Sri Bhagavan called it 'I-I': if it must be called anything, no nominal form could ever come nearer, or be less misleading as an indication, than his term.
All objectivisation is conceptual, all conceptuality is inference, and all inference is as empty of truth as a vacuum is empty of air. Moreover there is no truth, never has been and never could be; there is no thusness, suchness, is-ness, nor anything positive or negative whatever. There is just absolute absence of the cognisable, which is absolute presence of the unthinkable and the unknowable - which neither is nor is not. Inferentially this is said to be an immense and radiant splendour untrammelled by notions of time and space, and utterly beyond the dim, reflected sentience of temporal and finite imagination.
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Post by withinsilence on Sept 26, 2013 20:04:06 GMT
Can the thinker be moved by its own thoughts?
Does your voice bother you?
Then how can what you're thinking about?
The deeper one is immersed in the belief of the actuality of a thought (its contents presently physically happening), the greater its affect over ones feelings, thus your feelings are the result of thought not the cause of thinking. You are the thinker. I'll say it again, how you feel now is based upon what your choosing to think about now and see as reality. When one sees thoughts as thoughts and not reality, (which they are not) then one is not moved by their content which in reality is not physically happening. This is why being attentive now in the continual present moment (momentum=current of life or flow or stream of consciousness), or what is directly in front of and immediately around you presently, is the path that leads one out of suffering from attachment to its thoughts.
It seems that one is a prisoner of its thoughts, but who is giving them its attention and doing the believing that they're reality? What is real and permanent; thoughts or you "the thinker/presence/consciousness before thoughts" or that WHich Is Always Prior to Thinking?
Living here now, with a little space between "you" and "your thoughts" one sees that it used to be attached to (caught up in) its thoughts as if they were reality, when in reality they are just thoughts. Its not that your past didn't happen exactly as you remember it in your thoughts, but that its not happening and is only a thought/image of what already happened that "you" are viewing as a reoccurring movie on the screen of the mind. Ask oneself; how real/exciting/new/ is a movie you've already watched several times? Is any movie actual reality, physically happening now, or is it a recording of that which already happened? So how can a movie move you unless you believe in its reality as actually happening now? This previous real experience you had cannot be altered or changed in anyway and is but a thought in the mind, no longer being actual physical reality.
If the world understood the arbitrary nature of its thoughts, that they are only thoughts, then who would think to hurt who based upon what?
Every thought has its opposite, if one can think to hurt someone, they can also think not to. Why can't you think differently, because you can't or because you won't? If you look inside, you'll see its the latter which is really indolence.
To see how valid all your long held beliefs/thoughts are, get a bowl and set it in front of you. Now take all those important beliefs/thoughts and put them in the bowl so you can sort through them. Well.........where are they? Welcome to NOW, this is reality. Look, listen, see the world as it is without thoughts describing it as this or that. Abide in this moment and take notice of when you leave it and enter your thoughts, this is to bring awareness or presence to its true position, to become the master of the mind and to no longer be a victim of thoughts.
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Post by gurthbruins on Sept 27, 2013 7:33:49 GMT
My thought: if there is no problem, don't fix it. I don't see a problem... because I trust that what appears to be "evil" occurs by God's will and serves a higher purpose than we appreciate.
Sometimes we see that what we thought evil turned out to be necessary for the sake of a greater good. Sometimes we do not see it, but that does not mean it is not so.
In my view, because everything is in a state of flux (change), I see things as "occurring" rather than "existing".
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