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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 25, 2012 4:40:31 GMT
Calm, storm, equally valuable and necessary.
I take issue with Verse 21 above.
The moments of my past exist in me for ever, they are my jewels. My mind is not desperate. It is full of hope, or rather what is more than hope: faith and trust.
The moment of the present is an illusion. We never see the present, we only see the recent past, even if it is one trillionth of a second in time ago, it is still past.
And the moment of the future will surely come, we shall not escape it and we cannot fail to be mastered by it.
What can dissolve the mind but the mind itself? The mind dissolves itself, you don't need to do it.
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Post by popee on Nov 25, 2012 12:56:26 GMT
maybe consider the possibility that your conclusion is not [ the] final answer I shoulda fixed that typo/omission the first time I noticed it.
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 25, 2012 17:01:37 GMT
thank existence for the freedom to disagree, I love it, a disagreement on this site, a means towards evolution and maturity.
Awesome how the master teaches without a teaching, and says everything without a word, existence works perfectly to the perfection and continuation of itself as what else is there?
as one who sees both sides of the coin, I reside in the center, between this and that which lies between past and future, thus I flow in the ever moving momentum with the river of life and ride it for all its worth. Sometimes little minded me turns back and tries to swim up stream which the stream could careless it just keeps on moving regardless of the direction I think it should go.
though I can choose to enter memory, though I can choose to project the future, It is in that moment that I chose not to choose, thus I let go of thinking and jump into the flow (sometimes haha)
if one realizes that time stands still, only "you" move through it, then one will have come to the full knowledge of true being/non-being.
There are three "I"'s one can speak as: body/identity low level consciousness, /thought/memory/information/conditioning usually based on belief that one is the body but inquiring and spirit/soul/inspiration/intuition/intelligence/gnosis-highly evolved consciousness knowing seeker is sought, but one is all and all is one and it takes all to know/understand/stand under all. Same consciousness in an infinite number of degrees.
forms change in this realm of time which is an illusion of mind, transcend/experience dissolution of "I", "me" "mine" mind and time stands still yet the form you're in within this realm of time will pass away, you/being/non-being cannot as this realm is not its true home but one it manifested-entered to experience life within a form.
There is only source energy, has only ever been source energy, and only will ever be source energy thus "you" are a conceptual "form" of source energy or simply stated, created in the "image" of the "image maker or projector or creator" or "universal mind. " The seeker is the sought, the observer the observed hence there is no separation except that which is but a thought within the "human" brain/memory/conditioning or the great deceiver. yet without the deceiver one cannot come to know truth, thus the plan of creation is perfect and it is not two but only one source energy playing both parts of the illusion of duality hence the experience of life in this realm!
existence is impartial as shown by the destruction of nature and death, they take anyone at any time at any age without any reason whenever they want and no thing can stop them. Yet if one returns to unity with them and has no fear of them, then who is taken from what as they are you and you are them.
There is not life and then you, there is life and change which is brought about through the vehicle death. that which was never born cannot ever die and life/energy was not born for who gave birth to it? this the finite mind has a hard time understanding because its not reasonable, but is love reasonable? no its radical just like true life.
Show me death under a microscope? do not living things consume "dead" things to live? If its dead, where does this life sustaining energy come from? Does not dead matter decompose and return to the ground to feed new life, hence the cycle of life needs death, like yin and yang depend on each other and could not be without one of them. its simple really, perfectly simple.
of course this is only one of many opinions within the mind of existence
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Post by popee on Nov 25, 2012 19:43:25 GMT
thank existence for the freedom to disagree, I love it, a disagreement on this site, a means towards evolution and maturity. it just arises spontaneously, no one does anything
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 25, 2012 20:03:16 GMT
awesome isn't it, something does nothing or nothing does something because nothing can't do nothing only something can do something, I love duality its so fun, yet I 'll go back to my little space between something and nothing and just watch it all unfold but whose watching because there is no one who does anything. Now this was not spontaneous, I literally had to think about it and use memory to come up with it so who did that? hummm....the mind? or the body? the body mind, or the consciousness within it? or is it even in it, maybe its outside of it somewhere in a galaxy far far away projecting all of it? or maybe its the space around everything that controls the thing its around, is space conscious? who invented/created the empty space every thing is created within? who cares its still fun. but to who?
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Post by popee on Nov 25, 2012 20:37:59 GMT
have you done anything you would like to be acknowledged for something for which you deserve the credit?
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 25, 2012 21:13:00 GMT
I deserve exactly the reaction/repercussion of how I use the abilities existence has graced this being with. In other words, I take complete responsibility for what I consciously think, say and do in complete awareness. I created nothing not even the ability to think, yet I use it, I created not any part of the earth, yet I use it, I created not life and have no control over my death, yet I can force my own and take others, thus there must be something that has the potential to utilize the abilities of creation, yet also the responsibility in their use.
I understand what your pointing at, yet if you think something outside of "you" controls "your life" then sit there until "it" moves "you". This will show you that you are it and it is you or there is only it, hence you are life and life is everything and death is an illusion.
Its funny, yesterday I had this thought pop into my head that a vegetable is more important than man yet we all believe we're so important. without nature man dies, but without man nature lives. Man needs vegetables to live yet vegetables don't need man, so what is more valuable?
yet man (body of) is made of the same thing as the vegetables/animals/food so how can I separate the two, hence all is one or of the same source. do vegetables think? are they conscious? I think they are! hummm
You may see the whole world as an illusion or Maya, thus its all a creation of ONE mind. or you can see all of life emanating from ONE source playing may roles. Either way its still ONE no matter how you reduce it. If were all consciousness at varying levels or degrees, its all ONE consciousness just at different stages of evolution. If were all parts of consciousness or energy then we all must have originated from ONE whole that divide itself into all the parts, hence ONE. No matter what you believe, or how you reduce it, or perceive it, everything is ONE. Regardless of if there is a you or not, a soul or not, life after death or not, there is something within this form called a body who has the innate abilities to think, to produce thoughts that will not only affect himself but all of life, what you choose to do with your life is up to you.
I presently enjoy the Taoist approach to life yet I find it difficult at times to truly live it, I like the fact that its radically different than all religions and is in fact not one and is the direct opposite of how most of the world lives, this in itself is what draws me to it. Also it offers timeless wisdom for a simple practical life which I have started to really see is the Way to really live. To live with undiscriminating virtue towards all of life is to live as close to divinity as possible and this is to have experienced the dissolution of self and other or transcended duality or the "world". I believe that this is what this realm/plane is for, to return to ones true nature in preparation for moving onto another stage of life.
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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 26, 2012 5:00:01 GMT
have you done anything you would like to be acknowledged for something for which you deserve the credit? A searching, challenging question: I love this, really. I am more aware of the fact that I do not exist, am merely a slave or puppet of God, than I am of anything else, but I am also aware that there is a residual amount of vanity in me that chooses to identify with my "ego" and that enjoys being given credit and acknowledgement by the discerning. This I find acceptable, I don't need to fight it. As long as I have it in perspective. And also, I do feel uncomfortable when someone that knows me well thanks me for something. I feel I am usurping the thanks which is really due to God and not to "me". So I reply, "Don't thank me, thank God."
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Post by gurthbruins on Nov 26, 2012 5:06:02 GMT
maybe consider the possibility that your conclusion is not final answer My answer to this suggestion I place as an entry in my Formulations thread, as it is a main point in my philosophy.
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Post by popee on Nov 26, 2012 9:21:41 GMT
I don't know, but there seems to be a certain futility to the question
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 26, 2012 11:47:08 GMT
I don't know, but there seems to be a certain futility to the question no question is futile, without inquiry there is no change without asking who is this I that needs to ask why, one may continue down the endless path, thus inquiry is the Alpha and the Omega of the seeker, its not the seeker that stops the inquiry but the inquiry that ends the seeker.
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 26, 2012 12:14:48 GMT
have you done anything you would like to be acknowledged for something for which you deserve the credit? the opposite answer of the scared minds reply that it is nothing and does not exist, thus releasing all responsibility of its thoughts, words and deeds and entering death in unconsciousness is......what haven't I done, what am I not responsible for, shall the faults of this I not be brought into the light for refinement? shall I shriek away in fear of what I have caused? shall I live in fear and ignorance or overcome the world and its illusions by overcoming "my" false identity so that "I" may return to the divine realm from whence "I" come? Shall I not get the credit I so deserve whether that credit is the punishment I will reap for the continued ignorance I sowed or the rewards I will reap for the gnosis I transformed through, which I know is only the grace (availability) of the all seeing, all knowing, all encompassing I? The real question is which I are you speaking from and which I are you talking too? From the context of the question it is asked from the point of the mind's identity as separate from source and not one with it. source needs no credit for what is it lacking? The source needs not be acknowledged for anything as everything is from itself, there is no separate identity that is as a fearful, needy beggar who lacks anything! and certainly not one who is afraid to stand up and be accountable for the way it used its divine abilities to return to who its always been. when one lives at/as source energy, there is no separate self, no beggar, no fear, no lack, no need or want, it just is. if the world stopped shedding responsibility and awoken to the ignorance it continues to sow, and came to realize it is not separate from anything......well paint your own picture of how the world might be.
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Post by popee on Nov 26, 2012 13:38:20 GMT
I don't know, but there seems to be a certain futility to the question no question is futile, without inquiry there is no change without asking who is this I that needs to ask why, one may continue down the endless path, thus inquiry is the Alpha and the Omega of the seeker, its not the seeker that stops the inquiry but the inquiry that ends the seeker. how does one answer such questions? .... with words how reliable are words? ambiguous, incomplete, inadequate ... they are so I'm cool with "futility" though that is not meant to imply that words are not useful ... they are ... they get the ball rolling so to speak but knowing comes from beyond the realm of wordiness, like an intuition, that brief instant when an answer dawns on you but those answers then get translated into words, and people fall into the trap of believing their word-answers confusion often ensues == do I need to insert my disclaimer again? that I don't know anything ... that these are but opinions ...
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Post by withinsilence on Nov 26, 2012 16:07:36 GMT
no question is futile, without inquiry there is no change without asking who is this I that needs to ask why, one may continue down the endless path, thus inquiry is the Alpha and the Omega of the seeker, its not the seeker that stops the inquiry but the inquiry that ends the seeker. how does one answer such questions? .... with words how reliable are words? ambiguous, incomplete, inadequate ... they are so I'm cool with "futility" though that is not meant to imply that words are not useful ... they are ... they get the ball rolling so to speak but knowing comes from beyond the realm of wordiness, like an intuition, that brief instant when an answer dawns on you but those answers then get translated into words, and people fall into the trap of believing their word-answers confusion often ensues == do I need to insert my disclaimer again? that I don't know anything ... that these are but opinions ... agree completely popee, yet ones effort is not to shine light onto one whose already illuminated but to blow wind into the sails of those whose are stuck within the stormy sea. without the courage to inquire one remains a prisoner of the thought of fear that blocks it from questioning why it fears what it fears, to enter into the unknown.
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Post by popee on Nov 26, 2012 17:04:41 GMT
I almost never think about ... "other people needing help waking up' for one, I can't even comprehend what that means
but mostly, it is because of, how ultimately, what a solitary a journey that is something must first click within an individual ... "somethings not right with this picture" and then you're off to the races, a drib of this, a dabble of that ... until you find the words and teachers which speak to you best
and I am not inclined to interfere with a person trying to find their way even if I thought I might be of some assistance (which I don't) I wouldn't want to point someone in a direction they might not be ready for
if someone is sincere and committed, they will do just fine
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