Post by gurthbruins on Oct 14, 2013 5:29:48 GMT
I'm collecting my posts on other, Philosophy forums here, to preserve them somewhere when they get buried alive there.
1. www.facebook.com/groups/partiallyexaminedlife/permalink/10151901672109660/
Gurth Bruins
Greetings to all, from an hour-old member.
My first post - where do I start? Looking through the most recent posts, I thought that here was more pleasing material than elsewhere on FB, as regards Wisdom.
Yes, philosophy = love of wisdom, not mental gymnastics. I want Wisdom, for certain reasons. For me, all the efforts and work of 'philosophers' has been of less use in the pursuit of Wisdom than any half-decent novel - I like DH Lawrence's brash boast of the importance of the novelist as philosopher.
Then there is religion. Religion is attacked because of those who have abused it. It appears evil because of the atrocities committed in its name. But what of the atrocities committed by anarchists, socialists such as Stalin, and other atheists? It's not the system that's to blame, it's human nature.
I recognise all the religions as praiseworthy and valuable sources of spiritual inspiration. By 'spiritual' I mean anything that stirs the emotions that we value most highly: those evoked by Love and Beauty, as well as other things more commonly understood by this term.
Philosophy invalidates itself where it abandons spiritual values in favour of wasting time on hair-splitting and useless (non-pragmatic) arguments about the meaning of words. Words are intended to convey a certain meaning by their users, and can indeed mean nothing else. Whether or not they succeed in conveying anything is a problem in communication. In many cases body language or physical reactions might be more efficient than words, also the tone and modulations of the voice in using words often conveys far more than the words themselves.
I find that novelist, poet and dramatist (including the writers of soapies!), have more ability than scientist or essayist to illuminate and convey spiritual truths, using simple words only. Jargon is self-defeating.
Then there is music, which Beethoven said is a higher revelation that all wisdom or philosophy, by which he meant words.
I'll end my diatribe with a pantheistic quote from my favourite word-mongerer:
"And all things seem only one,
In the universal sun" - Shelley
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Gurth Bruins: No Greg - rather you have already convinced me! I don't think too much about wisdom myself, I've never seen it as the primary goal... as I said, I want it for 'certain' reasons, meaning other reasons.
I don't think much of having goals. Better to have none, I think, if you can afford such a luxury. So I confess to having a material goal of continuing to ensure my survival until I reach a condition of unworthwhile decrepitude.
Even less do I believe in pursuits, especially that of happiness. I think we already have sufficient inbuilt drives to keep us moving in directions that lead to an accumulation of experience. Now that, I think, is true wealth: a good stock of experiences in memory.
I suppose I'd have to accept Aristotle's claim that happiness is the chief good, except that I think this is really a tautology - because I think that All goods depend on happiness: if there were no happiness there could be nothing 'good'.
Yes, I agree that wisdom is more a byproduct, and happiness too I see in terms of its biological function: it's a carrot we get for obeying nature's demands. If we try to escape them by getting happiness elsewhere, as from drugs or electrodes in the brain, we may come a serious cropper.
Also, happiness is relative, and as Spinoza points out, dependent on change from one condition to a better. Nevertheless I believe in an endogenous euphoria demanding only the continuation of a stable, adequate environment, which must include a healthy body and suitable food and challenge of all our faculties.
Nature, aided by Malthus's Law, continues to provide challenges, and if we are successful in real life than we must go further and invent challenges for ourselves: e.g. by taking up games like rugby or chess, or climbing Everest, or trying to outwit the other members of our group...
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Gurth Bruins: By 'spirit' I mean the psychological side of man, animals, plants, 'inanimate' matter. And the ultimate 'spirit' is the psychological side of the whole universe, seen as a single organism. As a pantheist I might be happy to just call the universe 'the universe'. I do prefer the term 'God' as it emphasises the psychological side rather than the usual materialistic view of the universe: God has a psychology, being capable of Will . It would be far-fetched, I think, to think that we, as parts of the universe, possess a consciousness greater than that of the Whole. My pantheism is close to Spinoza's and also to Holism, and also to Daoism and Zen. The upshot is that I regard myself as the willing and obedient slave of God.
1. www.facebook.com/groups/partiallyexaminedlife/permalink/10151901672109660/
Gurth Bruins
Greetings to all, from an hour-old member.
My first post - where do I start? Looking through the most recent posts, I thought that here was more pleasing material than elsewhere on FB, as regards Wisdom.
Yes, philosophy = love of wisdom, not mental gymnastics. I want Wisdom, for certain reasons. For me, all the efforts and work of 'philosophers' has been of less use in the pursuit of Wisdom than any half-decent novel - I like DH Lawrence's brash boast of the importance of the novelist as philosopher.
Then there is religion. Religion is attacked because of those who have abused it. It appears evil because of the atrocities committed in its name. But what of the atrocities committed by anarchists, socialists such as Stalin, and other atheists? It's not the system that's to blame, it's human nature.
I recognise all the religions as praiseworthy and valuable sources of spiritual inspiration. By 'spiritual' I mean anything that stirs the emotions that we value most highly: those evoked by Love and Beauty, as well as other things more commonly understood by this term.
Philosophy invalidates itself where it abandons spiritual values in favour of wasting time on hair-splitting and useless (non-pragmatic) arguments about the meaning of words. Words are intended to convey a certain meaning by their users, and can indeed mean nothing else. Whether or not they succeed in conveying anything is a problem in communication. In many cases body language or physical reactions might be more efficient than words, also the tone and modulations of the voice in using words often conveys far more than the words themselves.
I find that novelist, poet and dramatist (including the writers of soapies!), have more ability than scientist or essayist to illuminate and convey spiritual truths, using simple words only. Jargon is self-defeating.
Then there is music, which Beethoven said is a higher revelation that all wisdom or philosophy, by which he meant words.
I'll end my diatribe with a pantheistic quote from my favourite word-mongerer:
"And all things seem only one,
In the universal sun" - Shelley
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Gurth Bruins: No Greg - rather you have already convinced me! I don't think too much about wisdom myself, I've never seen it as the primary goal... as I said, I want it for 'certain' reasons, meaning other reasons.
I don't think much of having goals. Better to have none, I think, if you can afford such a luxury. So I confess to having a material goal of continuing to ensure my survival until I reach a condition of unworthwhile decrepitude.
Even less do I believe in pursuits, especially that of happiness. I think we already have sufficient inbuilt drives to keep us moving in directions that lead to an accumulation of experience. Now that, I think, is true wealth: a good stock of experiences in memory.
I suppose I'd have to accept Aristotle's claim that happiness is the chief good, except that I think this is really a tautology - because I think that All goods depend on happiness: if there were no happiness there could be nothing 'good'.
Yes, I agree that wisdom is more a byproduct, and happiness too I see in terms of its biological function: it's a carrot we get for obeying nature's demands. If we try to escape them by getting happiness elsewhere, as from drugs or electrodes in the brain, we may come a serious cropper.
Also, happiness is relative, and as Spinoza points out, dependent on change from one condition to a better. Nevertheless I believe in an endogenous euphoria demanding only the continuation of a stable, adequate environment, which must include a healthy body and suitable food and challenge of all our faculties.
Nature, aided by Malthus's Law, continues to provide challenges, and if we are successful in real life than we must go further and invent challenges for ourselves: e.g. by taking up games like rugby or chess, or climbing Everest, or trying to outwit the other members of our group...
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Gurth Bruins: By 'spirit' I mean the psychological side of man, animals, plants, 'inanimate' matter. And the ultimate 'spirit' is the psychological side of the whole universe, seen as a single organism. As a pantheist I might be happy to just call the universe 'the universe'. I do prefer the term 'God' as it emphasises the psychological side rather than the usual materialistic view of the universe: God has a psychology, being capable of Will . It would be far-fetched, I think, to think that we, as parts of the universe, possess a consciousness greater than that of the Whole. My pantheism is close to Spinoza's and also to Holism, and also to Daoism and Zen. The upshot is that I regard myself as the willing and obedient slave of God.